Posts tagged: Breast Feed

NEWS: 'Trust drug' dissolves suspicion

Question:

How bizarre.  This changes everything.  I don’t trust you anymore. -John

Response:

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 nilk…@invalid.com.au wrote: (snip) : :The University of Zurich investigators were intrigued by :previous findings that lab mammals which had been given :o xytocin became far less cautious about striking up :affiliations with each other. Interesting, but not ready for commerical use yet. It should be mixed with a "cocktail" of other ingredients like pheromones and Zoloft. :P :In addition, levels of this hormone are said to be higher :amongst people who say they are in love. Putting the cart before the horse. You have to BE in love before the hormone can increase… — "…George and I are complete opposites – I’m quiet, he’s talkative; I’m introverted, he’s extroverted. I can pronounce ‘nuclear.’ "  - Laura Bush at White House Correspondents’ Association dinner, April 30 2005 http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2005-05-01-laura-bush-comments_x.htm

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article <20050605183049.B71…@alii.inets.com> Lonely God <Delldude@^gatewaydaemon^.org> wrote: >On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 nilk…@invalid.com.au wrote: >>In addition, levels of this hormone are said to be higher amongst >>people who say they are in love. >Putting the cart before the horse. You have to BE in love before the >hormone can increase…

True, it’s a bit of cargu cult thinking.  Still, if you have no other options and don’t understand the whole process anyway, you might as well build a runway and see if the planes come. – — There is a lot of food in a supermarket, too, but a supermarket isn’t the best place to hold a dinner party. — Christopher Faylor —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQFCpE+m/FmLrNfLpjMRAgFTAJ4iEJfrlyKfALoi7HGBW8GvY3VdtgCdFgtW KNl/MnPipOM60DQ0s141pUw= =pOf0 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nilk…@invalid.com.au wrote: > ‘Trust drug’ dissolves suspicion > AFP > June 02, 2005 > [extracts] > A SWISS research team has discovered that a natural hormone > which helps new mothers to breast-feed is also a "trust > drug" that dramatically lowers the threshold of suspicion. > The hormone, called oxytocin, acts like a cerebral switch, > they believe. > In both men and women it turns on neural networks that > govern emotions, particular those of trust and social > attachment. > The University of Zurich investigators were intrigued by > previous findings that lab mammals which had been given > oxytocin became far less cautious about striking up > affiliations with each other. > ——- > In animal research, oxytocin has been previously associated > with pair bonding. For instance, virgin sheep injected with > the hormone showed maternal behaviour towards foreign lambs. > In addition, levels of this hormone are said to be higher > amongst people who say they are in love. > This latest research, though, provides some striking > clinical evidence as to how the hormone may work in the > creation of trust. > The study appears on Thursday in Nature, the British science > weekly, where lead author Ernst Fehr says the findings could > one day help unlock pharmaceutical cures for people who have > a genetic illness which cripples them when it comes to > social interaction. > But, he admits: "This finding could be misused to induce > trusting behaviours that selfish actors subsequently > exploit." > [more at] > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,1548447… > ================ > Regards, > "Nilkids"

nice one for posting this… I immediately thought of "this place" and the people here, when I read about this in the press. oxytocin all round I think ;)

Response:

Gender Reassignment Surgery

Question:

F.r a n k wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In news:AJPNd.314191$8l.78466@pd7tw1no, > mWarrior <MemeWarr…@meme.mem> wrote : >>F.r a n k wrote: >>>In news:oNBNd.304927$6l.217220@pd7tw2no, >>>mWarrior <MemeWarr…@meme.mem> wrote : >>>>Perhap its not the worst idea. After all women do get all the >>>>breaks in life. But isn’t their some things that surgey just >>>>cannot change. Man hands for example, those don’t look the best >>>>on women. Men also have larger heads then women. A man sized head >>>>on a women is not a pretty site. >>>>If I could trade being a man for being an attractive women I might >>>>consider it, But I would make such a ugly girl. >>>    I already have feminine hands! Cool! And also feminine wrists, >>>feminine ankles… And even feminine hips! (my pelvis is too large. >>>I mean… as a man…!) >>Your good to go then. Enjoy all the material advantages of being a sex >>object. >     Yeah!!! And the right to be sensitive, the right to speak up when you’ve > been abused (without being ridiculed for it), the right to stay at home with > the kids, etc etc.

In some areas (try Portand, Oregon, USA) men already have those rights. And yes, the rest of the world should continue to work toward true equality. Oh, though I have to add that women should be the ones to stay home with the kids for the first year, at least until science finds a practical way to stimulate lactation in men so fathers can breastfeed. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:FvqdnWZQ-PQNrZffRVn- h…@comcast.com: >  The key is that it has to be a mixed group… you have to > actually make friends with women.

Girls–that’s where cooties comes from! — "Poor Jack–he was a wise man, but he loved playing with that wheat thresher. ALWAYS with the wheat thresher!"  Peter Griffin. Winning Hearts&Minds: http://eerierodent.blogspot.com

Response:

Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: > Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:FvqdnWZQ-PQNrZffRVn- > h…@comcast.com: >> The key is that it has to be a mixed group… you have to >>actually make friends with women. > Girls–that’s where cooties comes from!

Be afraid. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:5-OdnVGnjJ-L1JffRVn- j…@comcast.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: >> Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:FvqdnWZQ- PQNrZffRVn- >> h…@comcast.com: >>> The key is that it has to be a mixed group… you have to >>>actually make friends with women. >> Girls–that’s where cooties comes from! > Be afraid.

Of the Mad Persian Woman. — "Poor Jack–he was a wise man, but he loved playing with that wheat thresher. ALWAYS with the wheat thresher!"  Peter Griffin. Winning Hearts&Minds: http://eerierodent.blogspot.com

Response:

F.r a n k wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In news:1107834945.179376.19450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, > Gray Loser <gray_lo…@hotmail.com> wrote : > > mWarrior wrote: > > > Perhap its not the worst idea. After all women do get all the > > > breaks in life. But isn’t their some things that surgey just cannot > > > change. Man hands for example, those don’t look the best on women. > > > Men also have larger heads then women. A man sized head on a women > > > is not a pretty site. > > > If I could trade being a man for being an attractive women I might > > > consider it, But I would make such a ugly girl. > > I might consider it too, except then I’d have to be a lesbian. Well, > > maybe not the worst of fates. >     You know, this desire to be a girl, I think you should consider it very > seriously.

It’s not really a fantasy or a fixation for me.  It’s mostly based on the observation that life would, in some ways, be much easier if I were a woman.  Traits that have made my life empty and difficult as a male — such as social passivity and shyness — would be much less damaging as a female. Plus, women are a foreign enough phenomenon to me (since I’m Grade-A Femme Repellent) that it’s interesting to speculate about such things. > Up to the point that it may explain ALL your problems with > relating to girls (as more than friends).

True — it could.  And it’s certainly safe to say that I don’t relate to females in a normal, healthy, masculine manner.  I probably come off as fairly asexual to them. I think, though, that it’s easier to explain this in terms of social phobia, shyness, low self-esteem, etc. than in terms of some hidden "feminine psyche" or whatever. > And even your problems with being a "loser"…

Note, a lot of people on this group read a lot of significance into the fact that I selected "Gray Loser" as my handle.  My self-esteem actually isn’t as cripplingly low as my handle might lead you to believe.  It was just a reflection of how I felt at the time I selected the handle — depressed, lost, etc. I don’t consider myself a "loser," exactly.  I am pretty successful by some societal measures.  It’s just that I’m a socially awkward, unhappy person. >     So how do you feel about the idea of trying to become a "real man" who’s > confident enough to approach the attractive girls and confident enough to > put them in his bed?

Heh heh heh.  You know, just reading this paragraph felt surreal.  I can barely wrap my brain around the concept of me… somehow… doing that stuff… Nope, can’t do it.  Oh well.

Response:

Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:HbmdnZrcWdEWGpTfRVn- > s…@comcast.com: >>Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: >>>Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in > news:F72dnSuuzb4Y_ZTfRVn- >>>v…@comcast.com: >>>>I have strong opinions on breastfeeding. >>>No one wants to hear about your sick, perverted fetishes, lady. >>Except you, in lush technicolor detail. > PWNED AGAIN! Blast you vile woman!

<evil cackling fading into soft "bow-chicka-bow-bow" music in the distance> — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

mWarrior wrote: > F.r a n k wrote: >>     So how do you feel about the idea of trying to become a "real man" >> who’s >> confident enough to approach the attractive girls and confident enough to >> put them in his bed? > I personally don’t know if I can ever reach that point. My strategy now > is to learn how to stop caring about women’s feelings. If I can > objectify them I should be able to approach and seduce them with less > trouble…..right?

 From observing my friends locally, and trust me, a more motley crew of neurotic geek-types could not be deliberately assembled without spending millions on recruiters, the whole "finding a kindred spirit" thing works best when you hang out with a mixed group of people who have similar interests. The key is that it has to be a mixed group… you have to actually make friends with women. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

F.r a n k wrote: >     So how do you feel about the idea of trying to become a "real man" who’s > confident enough to approach the attractive girls and confident enough to > put them in his bed?

I personally don’t know if I can ever reach that point. My strategy now is to learn how to stop caring about women’s feelings. If I can objectify them I should be able to approach and seduce them with less trouble…..right?

Response:

Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:HbmdnZrcWdEWGpTfRVn- s…@comcast.com: > Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: >> Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in

news:F72dnSuuzb4Y_ZTfRVn- >> v…@comcast.com: >>>I have strong opinions on breastfeeding. >> No one wants to hear about your sick, perverted fetishes, lady. > Except you, in lush technicolor detail.

PWNED AGAIN! Blast you vile woman! — "Poor Jack–he was a wise man, but he loved playing with that wheat thresher. ALWAYS with the wheat thresher!"  Peter Griffin. Winning Hearts&Minds: http://eerierodent.blogspot.com

Response:

Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: > Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:F72dnSuuzb4Y_ZTfRVn- > v…@comcast.com: >>I have strong opinions on breastfeeding. > No one wants to hear about your sick, perverted fetishes, lady.

Except you, in lush technicolor detail. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -August Pamplona wrote: > Dolores wrote: >> F.r a n k wrote: >>> In news:W_ydnS8zmtHhspXfRVn-3w@comcast.com, >>> Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote : >>>> In some areas (try Portand, Oregon, USA) men already have those >>>> rights. >>>> And yes, the rest of the world should continue to work toward true >>>> equality. >>>> Oh, though I have to add that women should be the ones to stay home >>>> with the kids for the first year, at least until science finds a >>>> practical >>>> way to stimulate lactation in men so fathers can breastfeed. >>>     Well lots of women don’t breastfeed… (or just for one month or >>> something) That’s why they invented the "milk for babies" (yeah one can >>> sound stupid when it’s not our native language…) >> I have strong opinions on breastfeeding. Medical science shows >> incontrovertably that it is detrimental to babies to be fed artificial >> baby milk in place of real mother’s milk. >     Outrageous! If God had meant for women to breast feed their > babies, he would have equipped them with some sort of breast milk > producing apparatus.

LOL! >> If you don’t think babies should have breastmilk, don’t have babies. > August Pamplona

– -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

In news:W_ydnS8zmtHhspXfRVn-3w@comcast.com, Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote : > In some areas (try Portand, Oregon, USA) men already have those > rights. > And yes, the rest of the world should continue to work toward true > equality. > Oh, though I have to add that women should be the ones to stay home > with the kids for the first year, at least until science finds a > practical > way to stimulate lactation in men so fathers can breastfeed.

    Well lots of women don’t breastfeed… (or just for one month or something) That’s why they invented the "milk for babies" (yeah one can sound stupid when it’s not our native language…) —

Understanding > Grammar

Question:

Here is my sister Angelica’s old address: 1500 North Congress Avenue # A-4 West Palm Beach, FL 33401

Response:

Chesucat, I have killed logic.

Response:

Chesucat, She is now 33 years old.

Response:

Chesucat, Do you like to be touched?

Response:

Chesucat, Incantation. Prayer.

Response:

Chesucat, Talk to the air. Spellcasting can be fun.

Response:

"Chesucat" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:33dm0dF3vdvlsU3@individual.net… > Daniel Urtiz wrote: > DU>Chesucat, > DU>Do you like to be touched? > Daniel, > My mother said that when I was a baby I didn’t like to be held and I > would go all stiff-like when picked up.  She said I didn’t cry very > much as a baby too.  I told pine about that and she thought it was > kinda sad for some reason.  Did your mother breast-feed you when you > were a baby? > <chesucat twitched>

I was terrified of my mother when I was a kid, I was afraid to even breathe in front of her.

Response:

Chesucat, My mother didn’t breastfeed me and I am not circumsized. I ran into a snob on a BBS once who was named Matthew, who was somewhat of a snob with regards to commas. He was an ugly, pasty white boy. Why should I feel regrets over such an insult? I attempted civility, but he went off blabbling about some stale food some Mexican wagon or other was selling near his workplace. He was being a snob and I knew it was somewaht aimed at me, but I didn’t push the subject very much, because most white people are hypocrites and cowards. Some crotchety old man also made a big deal about a threat I made, but he might have deserved it.

Response:

Chesucat, Logic isn’t just math. Some people use it as a head trip. Doing that is somewhat ethnocentric, because most Hispanics don’t like logic very much. If taken to a far enough extent, it can become abusive.

Response:

"Chesucat" <chesu…@freeshell.org> wrote in message

news:Pine.NEB.4.61.0412300034480.17891@bgnxh.serrfuryy.bet… > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Hood wrote: > > I was terrified of my mother when I was a kid, I was afraid to even > > breathe in front of her. > Michelle is somewhat ‘autistic’, non? > <chesucat twitches>

You could be right – I have never thought of that, surprising none of the psychiatrists have thought of it.

Response:

Chesucat, That’s bull shit, Chesucat. Some Hispanics are passionate, not all of them. They really aren’t as "one-eyed" or clone as you might think they are. I think Hispanics tend to be more emotional than they are passionate. Italians are the passionate ones.

Response:

> Daniel, > You are getting "emotional", ‘ey?;-)  You are opening up to the ‘group’ > more!

oh feel the love.  let’s get some MDMA into Danny boy and have a big love fest.  i just love hot sweaty Hispanics. <m’s penis twitched> m.

Response:

> > He was being a snob and I knew it was somewhat aimed at me, but I didn’t > > push the subject very much, because most white people are hypocrites and > > cowards.

folks, if you don’t know what irony is, this is a great definition. m.

Response:

Election was fixed, Diebold, remember that name

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Liberals and many other non-thinking oddballs on the left HAVE to believe the election was fraudulent if only to breast-feed their own abnormal political psychosis.. That the majority of the American people refused to vote for their empty-headed hero Kerry has to be devastating to them in the same way electroshock therapy would be to their fellow mental patients. The only difference is that electroshock can sometimes jolt the the psychotic back to reality but with liberals, many of whom live in the make-believe world of global conspiracies and Aesopian intrigues, the shock of Bush winning has only plunged them deeper into collective psychoneurosis and hysteria. The fiction of election fraud is to them like a child’s teddy bear or favorite blanket-it makes them seem snug and secure and blocks out the real world. They are truly a pathetic load of morons, more to be pitied than despised although I have to admit they can be amusing at times and can always be counted on to provide us with quality giggle time. Dr John Diebold, American Psychoanalytic Association & Founder & CEO of Diebold, Inc Dr Kevin Mitnick, Vice President -We Guarantee Your Election-

The empty-headed hero Kerry is not even their replacement for Dasshole. Some leader! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try actually READING the article before you put on your tinfoil hat. "Deducting the erroneous Bush votes from his total could not change the election’s outcome, and there were ***no signs of other errors*** in Ohio’s electronic machines, said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Franklin is the only Ohio county to use ***Danaher Controls*** Inc.’s ELECTronic 1242, an ***older-style*** touchscreen voting system. Danaher did not immediately return a message for comment." Emphasis mine. It wasn’t even a Diebold!  BWAHAHAHAHA HA HA heh.

Response:

"Deducting the erroneous Bush votes from his total could not change the election’s outcome, and there were ***no signs of other errors*** in Ohio’s electronic machines, said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell.

Nevertheless, it appears that inadequate testing of the software is responsible for the errors. A recount should be done to determine the full extent of the errors, so that fixes can be made to the ballot count of this election, and the whole process revamped for the future.

Response:

Try actually READING the article before you put on your tinfoil hat. "Deducting the erroneous Bush votes from his total could not change the election’s outcome, and there were ***no signs of other errors*** in Ohio’s electronic machines, said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Franklin is the only Ohio county to use ***Danaher Controls*** Inc.’s ELECTronic 1242, an ***older-style*** touchscreen voting system. Danaher did not immediately return a message for comment." Emphasis mine. It wasn’t even a Diebold!  BWAHAHAHAHA HA HA heh. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is even more about this scandal: http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/news/news.01.txt The pot is coming to a boil. This will be the greatest scandal in the history of the United States. The GOP stole the election, and not only for President, they stole it in countless other races in battleground states across the United States. Yes, you idiots voted for a criminal when you voted for Bush. The reports are starting to come out. Read about it here: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_el_pr/voti… At one voting place in Ohio, the voting machines gave Bush 4,000 more votes than he actually got! Multiply this countless times in Ohio, and Bush probably lost Ohio and the presidency. The fix was in on the election. In August the head of Diebold maker of the touch screen voter system used in Ohio and Florida, among many other states, said at a GOP meeting that he "would deliver the electoral votes needed" to win Ohio. What is incredibly shocking is how bad these voting machines are. First, there is no paper trail. Second, they are incredibly easy to hack, some even saying the vote totals were in a generic Excel spreadsheet file, which has zero protection. Third, the resulting vote totals are not identified in any form with individual voters, or even individual voting places. They are just lumped into one easy to mess with total, which can probably be altered at the Diebold company, which is tied in via the internet to the servers. Forth, if there is any hint of corruption, there is no way to go back and check. It is a system the mafia would love to have for laundering money! I think the fix was in. What is most alarming is that exit polls and Zogby polls both before and during the voting, were consistently different in the states that were using this system. The republicans targeted all the battleground states, except for Pennsylvania, which they probably could not corrupt. Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way to find out that this happened. There is absolutely no paper trail. Bush and his cronies have no respect for the rules of current society, which means they have absolutely no qualms with breaking these rules. I think they did this on election day on such a massive scale that the democrats are shocked and nobody will ever be able to track the corruption because there is no paper trail. You might as well forget about Social Security. Baby boomers are going to be screwed big time on Social Security. You might as well forget about fixing health care costs, Bush only supports the drug and medical companies, not the average consumers. Bush is going to take this false "mandate" of winning the popular vote and ram home all of his nasty agenda, which is turning America into a third world country.

Response:

Liberals and many other non-thinking oddballs on the left HAVE to believe the election was fraudulent if only to breast-feed their own abnormal political psychosis.. That the majority of the American people refused to vote for their empty-headed hero Kerry has to be devastating to them in the same way electroshock therapy would be to their fellow mental patients. The only difference is that electroshock can sometimes jolt the the psychotic back to reality but with liberals, many of whom live in the make-believe world of global conspiracies and Aesopian intrigues, the shock of Bush winning has only plunged them deeper into collective psychoneurosis and hysteria. The fiction of election fraud is to them like a child’s teddy bear or favorite blanket-it makes them seem snug and secure and blocks out the real world. They are truly a pathetic load of morons, more to be pitied than despised although I have to admit they can be amusing at times and can always be counted on to provide us with quality giggle time. Dr John Diebold, American Psychoanalytic Association & Founder & CEO of Diebold, Inc Dr Kevin Mitnick, Vice President -We Guarantee Your Election- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try actually READING the article before you put on your tinfoil hat. "Deducting the erroneous Bush votes from his total could not change the election’s outcome, and there were ***no signs of other errors*** in Ohio’s electronic machines, said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Franklin is the only Ohio county to use ***Danaher Controls*** Inc.’s ELECTronic 1242, an ***older-style*** touchscreen voting system. Danaher did not immediately return a message for comment." Emphasis mine. It wasn’t even a Diebold!  BWAHAHAHAHA HA HA heh. Here is even more about this scandal: http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/news/news.01.txt The pot is coming to a boil. This will be the greatest scandal in the history of the United States. The GOP stole the election, and not only for President, they stole it in countless other races in battleground states across the United States. Yes, you idiots voted for a criminal when you voted for Bush. The reports are starting to come out. Read about it here: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_el_pr/voti… At one voting place in Ohio, the voting machines gave Bush 4,000 more votes than he actually got! Multiply this countless times in Ohio, and Bush probably lost Ohio and the presidency. The fix was in on the election. In August the head of Diebold maker of the touch screen voter system used in Ohio and Florida, among many other states, said at a GOP meeting that he "would deliver the electoral votes needed" to win Ohio. What is incredibly shocking is how bad these voting machines are. First, there is no paper trail. Second, they are incredibly easy to hack, some even saying the vote totals were in a generic Excel spreadsheet file, which has zero protection. Third, the resulting vote totals are not identified in any form with individual voters, or even individual voting places. They are just lumped into one easy to mess with total, which can probably be altered at the Diebold company, which is tied in via the internet to the servers. Forth, if there is any hint of corruption, there is no way to go back and check. It is a system the mafia would love to have for laundering money! I think the fix was in. What is most alarming is that exit polls and Zogby polls both before and during the voting, were consistently different in the states that were using this system. The republicans targeted all the battleground states, except for Pennsylvania, which they probably could not corrupt. Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way to find out that this happened. There is absolutely no paper trail. Bush and his cronies have no respect for the rules of current society, which means they have absolutely no qualms with breaking these rules. I think they did this on election day on such a massive scale that the democrats are shocked and nobody will ever be able to track the corruption because there is no paper trail. You might as well forget about Social Security. Baby boomers are going to be screwed big time on Social Security. You might as well forget about fixing health care costs, Bush only supports the drug and medical companies, not the average consumers. Bush is going to take this false "mandate" of winning the popular vote and ram home all of his nasty agenda, which is turning America into a third world country.

Response:

Here is even more about this scandal: http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/news/news.01.txt The pot is coming to a boil. This will be the greatest scandal in the history of the United States. The GOP stole the election, and not only for President, they stole it in countless other races in battleground states across the United States. Yes, you idiots voted for a criminal when you voted for Bush. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reports are starting to come out. Read about it here: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_el_pr/voti… At one voting place in Ohio, the voting machines gave Bush 4,000 more votes than he actually got! Multiply this countless times in Ohio, and Bush probably lost Ohio and the presidency. The fix was in on the election. In August the head of Diebold maker of the touch screen voter system used in Ohio and Florida, among many other states, said at a GOP meeting that he "would deliver the electoral votes needed" to win Ohio. What is incredibly shocking is how bad these voting machines are. First, there is no paper trail. Second, they are incredibly easy to hack, some even saying the vote totals were in a generic Excel spreadsheet file, which has zero protection. Third, the resulting vote totals are not identified in any form with individual voters, or even individual voting places. They are just lumped into one easy to mess with total, which can probably be altered at the Diebold company, which is tied in via the internet to the servers. Forth, if there is any hint of corruption, there is no way to go back and check. It is a system the mafia would love to have for laundering money! I think the fix was in. What is most alarming is that exit polls and Zogby polls both before and during the voting, were consistently different in the states that were using this system. The republicans targeted all the battleground states, except for Pennsylvania, which they probably could not corrupt. Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way to find out that this happened. There is absolutely no paper trail. Bush and his cronies have no respect for the rules of current society, which means they have absolutely no qualms with breaking these rules. I think they did this on election day on such a massive scale that the democrats are shocked and nobody will ever be able to track the corruption because there is no paper trail. You might as well forget about Social Security. Baby boomers are going to be screwed big time on Social Security. You might as well forget about fixing health care costs, Bush only supports the drug and medical companies, not the average consumers. Bush is going to take this false "mandate" of winning the popular vote and ram home all of his nasty agenda, which is turning America into a third world country.

Response:

The reports are starting to come out. Read about it here: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_el_pr/voti… At one voting place in Ohio, the voting machines gave Bush 4,000 more votes than he actually got! Multiply this countless times in Ohio, and Bush probably lost Ohio and the presidency. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fix was in on the election. In August the head of Diebold maker of the touch screen voter system used in Ohio and Florida, among many other states, said at a GOP meeting that he "would deliver the electoral votes needed" to win Ohio. What is incredibly shocking is how bad these voting machines are. First, there is no paper trail. Second, they are incredibly easy to hack, some even saying the vote totals were in a generic Excel spreadsheet file, which has zero protection. Third, the resulting vote totals are not identified in any form with individual voters, or even individual voting places. They are just lumped into one easy to mess with total, which can probably be altered at the Diebold company, which is tied in via the internet to the servers. Forth, if there is any hint of corruption, there is no way to go back and check. It is a system the mafia would love to have for laundering money! I think the fix was in. What is most alarming is that exit polls and Zogby polls both before and during the voting, were consistently different in the states that were using this system. The republicans targeted all the battleground states, except for Pennsylvania, which they probably could not corrupt. Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way to find out that this happened. There is absolutely no paper trail. Bush and his cronies have no respect for the rules of current society, which means they have absolutely no qualms with breaking these rules. I think they did this on election day on such a massive scale that the democrats are shocked and nobody will ever be able to track the corruption because there is no paper trail. You might as well forget about Social Security. Baby boomers are going to be screwed big time on Social Security. You might as well forget about fixing health care costs, Bush only supports the drug and medical companies, not the average consumers. Bush is going to take this false "mandate" of winning the popular vote and ram home all of his nasty agenda, which is turning America into a third world country.

Response:

The fix was in on the election. In August the head of Diebold maker of the touch screen voter system used in Ohio and Florida, among many other states, said at a GOP meeting that he "would deliver the electoral votes needed" to win Ohio.

Doug Says:  All the voter machines were inspected and reinsepected by Democrat overseers.  The only real voter fraud involving machines occurred in Philadelphia , and that fraud was on behalf of the Democrats.  No doubt there was voter fraud in this election, but in spite of it the Dems lost anyway. Doug Grant (Tm)

Response:

The fix was in on the election. In August the head of Diebold maker of the touch screen voter system used in Ohio and Florida, among many other states, said at a GOP meeting that he "would deliver the electoral votes needed" to win Ohio. What is incredibly shocking is how bad these voting machines are. First, there is no paper trail. Second, they are incredibly easy to hack, some even saying the vote totals were in a generic Excel spreadsheet file, which has zero protection. Third, the resulting vote totals are not identified in any form with individual voters, or even individual voting places. They are just lumped into one easy to mess with total, which can probably be altered at the Diebold company, which is tied in via the internet to the servers. Forth, if there is any hint of corruption, there is no way to go back and check. It is a system the mafia would love to have for laundering money! I think the fix was in. What is most alarming is that exit polls and Zogby polls both before and during the voting, were consistently different in the states that were using this system. The republicans targeted all the battleground states, except for Pennsylvania, which they probably could not corrupt. Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way to find out that this happened. There is absolutely no paper trail. Bush and his cronies have no respect for the rules of current society, which means they have absolutely no qualms with breaking these rules. I think they did this on election day on such a massive scale that the democrats are shocked and nobody will ever be able to track the corruption because there is no paper trail. You might as well forget about Social Security. Baby boomers are going to be screwed big time on Social Security. You might as well forget about fixing health care costs, Bush only supports the drug and medical companies, not the average consumers. Bush is going to take this false "mandate" of winning the popular vote and ram home all of his nasty agenda, which is turning America into a third world country.

Response:

You’re a jerk. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fix was in on the election. In August the head of Diebold maker of the touch screen voter system used in Ohio and Florida, among many other states, said at a GOP meeting that he "would deliver the electoral votes needed" to win Ohio. What is incredibly shocking is how bad these voting machines are. First, there is no paper trail. Second, they are incredibly easy to hack, some even saying the vote totals were in a generic Excel spreadsheet file, which has zero protection. Third, the resulting vote totals are not identified in any form with individual voters, or even individual voting places. They are just lumped into one easy to mess with total, which can probably be altered at the Diebold company, which is tied in via the internet to the servers. Forth, if there is any hint of corruption, there is no way to go back and check. It is a system the mafia would love to have for laundering money! I think the fix was in. What is most alarming is that exit polls and Zogby polls both before and during the voting, were consistently different in the states that were using this system. The republicans targeted all the battleground states, except for Pennsylvania, which they probably could not corrupt. Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way to find out that this happened. There is absolutely no paper trail. Bush and his cronies have no respect for the rules of current society, which means they have absolutely no qualms with breaking these rules. I think they did this on election day on such a massive scale that the democrats are shocked and nobody will ever be able to track the corruption because there is no paper trail. You might as well forget about Social Security. Baby boomers are going to be screwed big time on Social Security. You might as well forget about fixing health care costs, Bush only supports the drug and medical companies, not the average consumers. Bush is going to take this false "mandate" of winning the popular vote and ram home all of his nasty agenda, which is turning America into a third world country.

Response:

Alan L. Keyes: Hysterectomy and NFP Equal Sodomy of NASA

Question:

Distillation or DOOM

I’ll vote for distillation.  I like Jack Daniels. Will it begin on October 5, 2004?

Yes, that’s when the sky will fall.  Chicken Little was right! By Ambassador Alan L. Keyes Why could this day be the beginning of death; of destruction?

Well, for death and destruction, one day is as good as the next. Why not Oct. 5? This is not about a prophesy.

Good for you, at least you won’t embarrass yourself there… The information contained herein is an evaluation of historical occurrences that will be coupled with culminating events –scheduled to take place on October 5, 2004– that could be considered by God as the final straw which will set off His wrath.

Another nutcase who talks to God, eh? Sin entered the world when man (Adam) listened -acted upon without due evaluation- to woman (Eve).

Ancient Sumerian myth, of Babylonian origin.  Probably crept into the literature during Israel’s Bablylonian captivitiy. By natural ability and by order of creation man has the responsibility of decision making and leadership.

No, that’s just the propaganda created by patriarchal culture, which believes the female is a type of sub-human, to be treated as a slave and as personal property.  Wives were commonly listed as property in the Old Testament. (The angel spoke to Mary concerning the bearing of a child, but spoke to Joseph concerning the affairs of the family.) Man is called upon to evaluate situations and to make determinations as to what is best for those concerned regarding the present and the future.

With the woman’s inferior brain and temperament, she cannot be counted on to make decisions.  That’s why it was not until nearly a century ago that females were considered smart enough to vote in the USA. Among man’s greater life challenges is avoidance of being mesmerized by woman’s charm into accepting her presentations without due reflection in regard to their real and moral value.

Yeah, we rednecks call that being "pussy whipped."  There’s the old navy saying about towing a battleship with a small cord woven out of female pubic hair.  For shame! Man has a special calling to discern truth and justice and then to place learned values into perspective.

Yeah, those stupid, pathetic women! Men should respect women for who and what they are, particularly for their capacity of motherhood.

Yeah, keep them barefoot and pregnant.  One in ‘em and one on ‘em. Because of men’s ineptitude in working with women and failure to take care of their own responsibilities, women for the most part are now out of control.

Hehe!   Wild wymin!  I love it! Neither men nor women any longer have a real relationship with God because of failure to accept their assigned duties.

Either that, or there’s the possibility this God you speak of is either a myth or wishes to have no further contact with humanity.  He’s been gone for a long time, nobody’s seen hide or hair of Him. Men deal neither honorably nor responsibly toward women.

Yeah, these days all men want is sex! And, women no longer have proper respect for either men or themselves.

Yeah, all women want now is sex! Uncontrolled women become progressively more destructive to themselves, their children, and the whole of society. Their desires are never satiated.

All they want is sex and a comfortable lifestyle.  Materialistic  nyphomaniacs, all of them! The primal commandment of God to the human race was and is, "Be fertile and multiply" (Gn. 1:28; 9:1). True monotheists believe in the universal God, not just a planetary God. God is believed to be unlimited and to have all knowledge, full understanding, and complete wisdom in regard to what humans refer to as past, present, and future.

Yeah, lets overpopulate ourselves into oblivion.  Use up all our natural resources, the future of our children be damned. It has long been my belief that we humans are meant to populate or at least travel throughout the universe and teach the Word of God to the whole of creation.

Oh great.  Space faring fundies!   Just what the universe needs!  Ignoramuses and trailer trash flying around in space ships! The need for population growth is astronomical. It should therefore be understood that every sensual sexual act which in anticipation or as a consequence is in opposition to procreation is contrary to God’s will.

Ok.  You’re a troll, right, just like I am?  You can’t be serious with this post.  Surely nobody is *this* dumb. Also included would be avoidance of copulation by married couples when the primary motive is derived from a contraceptive mentality.

Why not just do what JC commanded and cut off your penis? We know that during the time of Abraham the term sodomy came from sexual practices in the region of Sodom and Gomorrah.

If Sodomy is great fun, I wonder what Gomorrahy is like? These practices were not conducive to procreation. However, the general concept of sodomy has heretofore been quite limited. The essence of the evil of an act of sodomy exists in the non-procreativity of selfish sexual pleasuring, an offense against the primal commandment. (NOTE: A person with homosexual orientation should not automatically be considered a sodomite any more than a heterosexual should automatically be considered a fornicator or an adulterer. Chastity -abstention from immoral/unlawful sexual intercourse- is to be practiced by everyone regardless of orientation or marital status.)

How do thinking humans maintain the above bullshit in their minds? Talk about being a brainwashed cultie!  Why not just cut your dicks off and get over it? Is there a substantive problem with accepting that an active contraceptive mentality is a graver sin than the mass murder of multitudes of innocent unborn children? Aborted children, if one believes in a truly "just" God, will somehow be given an opportunity to share eternal life with God in Heaven.

That’s right.  Since the way to heaven is a narrow gate and few be that find it, the best way to send souls to heaven is to fuck like rabbits and abort ‘em all straight to paradise.  But fundies would rather those souls go to hell. Non-existent -never conceived– children can never have the opportunity to be in Heaven with God. God’s desire is to have as many intelligent beings (the soul is the seat of spiritual intelligence) share in eternal life that will accept Him for who and what He is, on His terms. In justice, every created human will be given an opportunity either to accept or to reject Him.

This post is a troll, right?  Are there really people around stupid enough to believe the crap in this post? Should it not be said that any sexual act which is intentionally non-procreative is a sin of sodomy, or worse?

Who is anyone to judge? A standard sodomite –if this can be considered acceptable phraseology–

Would a standard sodomite be a heterosexual couple that enjoy anal sex? does not normally have the intention of being non-procreative, but, the practical effect of non-procreativity was still considered as a grave enough sin to bring the hand of God upon the region of Sodom.

Read your bible, you drooling, slack-jawed slope headed moron.  Do a word search in an electronic bible and see what God’s real complaint was regarding Sodom.  Gluttony was one of the main complaints. John Haggee and family are all obvious Sodomites, as is Jerry Fallwell. What then can be said for those who intentionally are offensive to the primal commandment. Are they not committing a much graver form of sodomy? If sodomy were to be categorized into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and perhaps 4th degrees, which form of sodomy should be classified as the most offensive to God?

I can’t believe that the writer of this post, Keyes, is really serious.  I’m just having fun here trolling, surely this post I’m responding to is merely flame bait. If so, my troll-o-meter is just about pegged.  My stupid-o-meter is also registering about the same. Good post, even though it’s written by Mr. Keyes, supposedly. <smirk Other forms of sodomy would include but not necessarily be limited to the following:

No way I can respond to all the rest of this outrageous garbage, there’s just too much of it.  No way to outstink a dung heap!

Response:

<snip We know that during the time of Abraham the term sodomy came from sexual practices in the region of Sodom and Gomorrah. If Sodomy is great fun, I wonder what Gomorrahy is like?

    According to the Gay & Black Glossary ( http://mindprod.com/ggloss/gomorrahy.html ), "gomorrahy" is "the Canadian legal term for fisting (both vaginal and anal insertion of a hand), footing (both vaginal and anal), and stumping (both vaginal and anal insertion of an amputated stump)."  In other words, gomorrahy – a.k.a. the Sin of Gomorrah – is extremity insertion (it being understood that the penis is no more an extremity than it is a middle leg). Gomorgy

Response:

Distillation or DOOM Will it begin on October 5, 2004? By Ambassador Alan L. Keyes Eagle Forum Why could this day be the beginning of death; of destruction? This is not about a prophesy. The information contained herein is an evaluation of historical occurrences that will be coupled with culminating events –scheduled to take place on October 5, 2004– that could be considered by God as the final straw which will set off His wrath. THE EVENTS: Sin entered the world when man (Adam) listened

OT: Cat diagnosis, anyone?

Question:

Something is wrong with Roo. Came when I called him this morning, but very slowly. Ate his breakfast … some. Cold nose. No swelling. Not too warm to the touch. Has a very spacey stare, even for a cat; looks only at floor in front of him, gets up and walks in a tight circle always to the left, sits back down and stares, walks again in left-hand circle, sits, circles, sits, circles. All this in slow motion. Stumbles slightly, got up on couch but slowly; no jump, now perched with rear on seat cushion and front paws up on arm folded under, been there quite a while, eyes open. Acts like wants to sleep but won’t lie down even though head droops lower and lower. Could have been snake bitten, but no evidence. No wounds. It’s 7:30 a.m. and vet doesn’t open for another hour and a half. Anyone recognize the symptom? What’s wrong with le chat? BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Something is wrong with Roo.

[.....] My guess: Stroke or poison, maybe snake bite. Helen’s: Stroke. Lavon’s: Stroke. Dana’s: Neurological or poison. Diagnosis of Roo’s ailment by Calvin R. White, DVM: (Calvin is a graduate of Auburn University and the best veterinarian I have ever come across. Ada Veterinary Clinic, Inc., where Calvin hangs out and the place I take all my wounded animals, isn’t like the places I used to frequent in the big city. No white coats, no waxed and polished floors, and no nonsense – except banter (see below). Here it’s mostly for horses and cows, but Calvin treats the little ones like Roo with care. He once left a formal dinner at nine o’clock at night to reassemble a dog of mine that had lost a very bad argument with a pack of coyotes. I’d let him work on me if he would do it.) Calvin: "What’s wrong with your cat." Me: "That’s what I love about this place … you’re supposed to tell me and Roo what’s wrong." Calvin: "I mean, what’s he doing?" Me: "He’s stumbling around in circles and he looks funny." Calvin: "Both ways or just one way?" Me: "How many ways can a cat stumble?" Calvin: "I mean is he going clockwise or counter-clockwise?" Me: "Always counter-clockwise." Calvin: "What do you want me to do?" (This is always part of Calvin’s schtick.) Me: "First I want you to figure out what’s wrong; second I want you to tell ME what it is, and third I want you to fix him so he can walk straight again." Calvin: (Picks Roo up by tail, looks up his rear end and makes a phew face; Roo hooks at him). "He’s got CCFR." Me: "What’s THAT?" Calvin: "Counter clockwise feline rotation." Me: "How can you tell by just looking up his rear end?" Calvin: "I looked in his ear too, while you were looking at Darleen." Me: "What do you do for CCFR?" Calvin: "Someone wound him up backwards (glowering at me). He’ll have to be re-wound to the right." Me: "How long will that take?" Calvin: "He’ll probably be on the re-winder overnight." Me: "You’d say that if all he needed was an aspirin. You do that just so you can charge for board." Calvin: "It’s our con. Besides, there has to be some fun. Do you know how many cat, dog and horse rear ends I have to look up." Me: "OK, I’ll call in the morning. How much is all this going to cost? Calvin: "Plenty." Me: "By the way: what’s really wrong?" Calvin: "Inner-ear infection." (You probably think I made all that up, but it’s pretty much the way the conversation went.) BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Thanks for the update, Bob. It makes sense. I have had episodes like that. It really scares you though. I hope Roo is feeling better soon. Did

Ditto – glad it’s something easily treatable. Cheers, helen s –This is an invalid email address to avoid spam– to get correct one remove fame & fortune –Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off–

Response:

Me: "OK, I’ll call in the morning. How much is all this going to cost? Calvin: "Plenty." Me: "By the way: what’s really wrong?" Calvin: "Inner-ear infection." (You probably think I made all that up, but it’s pretty much the way the conversation went.) BobB

I LOVE your vet! Glad Roo has something minor! Dana

Response:

Bob: Take the cat to the vet. The vet is the only one who will tell you what is wrong with the cat. Barbara Booth

Response:

Doncha just LOVE docs like that?  Takes all the anxiety out of a scary office visit!!  I wish I lived near ya… I’d definitely switch vets! Liz (I’m still laughing and glad Roo will be okie dokie!!)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something is wrong with Roo. [.....] My guess: Stroke or poison, maybe snake bite. Helen’s: Stroke. Lavon’s: Stroke. Dana’s: Neurological or poison. Diagnosis of Roo’s ailment by Calvin R. White, DVM: (Calvin is a graduate of Auburn University and the best veterinarian I have ever come across. Ada Veterinary Clinic, Inc., where Calvin hangs out and the place I take all my wounded animals, isn’t like the places I used to frequent in the big city. No white coats, no waxed and polished floors, and no nonsense – except banter (see below). Here it’s mostly for horses and cows, but Calvin treats the little ones like Roo with care. He once left a formal dinner at nine o’clock at night to reassemble a dog of mine that had lost a very bad argument with a pack of coyotes. I’d let him work on me if he would do it.) Calvin: "What’s wrong with your cat." Me: "That’s what I love about this place … you’re supposed to tell me and Roo what’s wrong." Calvin: "I mean, what’s he doing?" Me: "He’s stumbling around in circles and he looks funny." Calvin: "Both ways or just one way?" Me: "How many ways can a cat stumble?" Calvin: "I mean is he going clockwise or counter-clockwise?" Me: "Always counter-clockwise." Calvin: "What do you want me to do?" (This is always part of Calvin’s schtick.) Me: "First I want you to figure out what’s wrong; second I want you to tell ME what it is, and third I want you to fix him so he can walk straight again." Calvin: (Picks Roo up by tail, looks up his rear end and makes a phew face; Roo hooks at him). "He’s got CCFR." Me: "What’s THAT?" Calvin: "Counter clockwise feline rotation." Me: "How can you tell by just looking up his rear end?" Calvin: "I looked in his ear too, while you were looking at Darleen." Me: "What do you do for CCFR?" Calvin: "Someone wound him up backwards (glowering at me). He’ll have to be re-wound to the right." Me: "How long will that take?" Calvin: "He’ll probably be on the re-winder overnight." Me: "You’d say that if all he needed was an aspirin. You do that just so you can charge for board." Calvin: "It’s our con. Besides, there has to be some fun. Do you know how many cat, dog and horse rear ends I have to look up." Me: "OK, I’ll call in the morning. How much is all this going to cost? Calvin: "Plenty." Me: "By the way: what’s really wrong?" Calvin: "Inner-ear infection." (You probably think I made all that up, but it’s pretty much the way the conversation went.) BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Happy dance! Great, silly joy bouncing around the house of chris, lavon & The Margo! Roo’s problem is completely do-able! Now, there’s a big YAHOO!!!!!! will put on the "Linus & Lucy" theme and do happy dance all over the place. Whew! Deep peace, Lavon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something is wrong with Roo. [.....] My guess: Stroke or poison, maybe snake bite. Helen’s: Stroke. Lavon’s: Stroke. Dana’s: Neurological or poison. Diagnosis of Roo’s ailment by Calvin R. White, DVM: (Calvin is a graduate of Auburn University and the best veterinarian I have ever come across. Ada Veterinary Clinic, Inc., where Calvin hangs out and the place I take all my wounded animals, isn’t like the places I used to frequent in the big city. No white coats, no waxed and polished floors, and no nonsense – except banter (see below). Here it’s mostly for horses and cows, but Calvin treats the little ones like Roo with care. He once left a formal dinner at nine o’clock at night to reassemble a dog of mine that had lost a very bad argument with a pack of coyotes. I’d let him work on me if he would do it.) Calvin: "What’s wrong with your cat." Me: "That’s what I love about this place … you’re supposed to tell me and Roo what’s wrong." Calvin: "I mean, what’s he doing?" Me: "He’s stumbling around in circles and he looks funny." Calvin: "Both ways or just one way?" Me: "How many ways can a cat stumble?" Calvin: "I mean is he going clockwise or counter-clockwise?" Me: "Always counter-clockwise." Calvin: "What do you want me to do?" (This is always part of Calvin’s schtick.) Me: "First I want you to figure out what’s wrong; second I want you to tell ME what it is, and third I want you to fix him so he can walk straight again." Calvin: (Picks Roo up by tail, looks up his rear end and makes a phew face; Roo hooks at him). "He’s got CCFR." Me: "What’s THAT?" Calvin: "Counter clockwise feline rotation." Me: "How can you tell by just looking up his rear end?" Calvin: "I looked in his ear too, while you were looking at Darleen." Me: "What do you do for CCFR?" Calvin: "Someone wound him up backwards (glowering at me). He’ll have to be re-wound to the right." Me: "How long will that take?" Calvin: "He’ll probably be on the re-winder overnight." Me: "You’d say that if all he needed was an aspirin. You do that just so you can charge for board." Calvin: "It’s our con. Besides, there has to be some fun. Do you know how many cat, dog and horse rear ends I have to look up." Me: "OK, I’ll call in the morning. How much is all this going to cost? Calvin: "Plenty." Me: "By the way: what’s really wrong?" Calvin: "Inner-ear infection." (You probably think I made all that up, but it’s pretty much the way the conversation went.) BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Yep, my vote is stroke, too….exactly how my step-dad’s dog acted when he had his.  Though, i hope this is just my over-reacting. I LOVE that your cat’s name is Roo….that was the second choice for Margo, and we decided that Roo would be our next doxie’s name (no, not now….when Margo is playing with St. Francis.) LET ME KNOW, PLEASE! Are you back from the vet?  Is it bad news?  please let me know how you are…..worried here in CA. dp, lavon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be the poor cat has had some sort of stroke? I’ve heard of similar happening. Worth a vet visit. Cheers, helen s –This is an invalid email address to avoid spam– to get correct one remove fame & fortune –Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off–

Response:

Something is wrong with Roo. Came when I called him this morning, but very slowly. Ate his breakfast … some. Cold nose. No swelling. Not too warm to the touch. Has a very spacey stare, even for a cat; looks only at floor in front of him, gets up and walks in a tight circle always to the left, sits back down and stares, walks again in left-hand circle, sits, circles, sits, circles. All this in slow motion.

GET ROO TO THE VET IMMEDIATELY!!! Stumbles slightly, got up on couch but slowly; no jump, now perched with rear on seat cushion and front paws up on arm folded under, been there quite a while, eyes open. Acts like wants to sleep but won’t lie down even though head droops lower and lower. Could have been snake bitten, but no evidence. No wounds. It’s 7:30 a.m. and vet doesn’t open for another hour and a half. Anyone recognize the symptom? What’s wrong with le chat?

Maybe something neuro, maybe poisoning. Please let us know how little Roo is now? Do you have access to an emergency vet? Dana

Response:

Could it be the poor cat has had some sort of stroke? I’ve heard of similar happening. Worth a vet visit. Cheers, helen s –This is an invalid email address to avoid spam– to get correct one remove fame & fortune –Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off–

Response:

That’s hysterical, but enlightening.  I have four of them and I’ve never had that happen…now I’ll know if it ever does happen.  Thanks for sharing your experience…in such an interesting way ;-) Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something is wrong with Roo. [.....] My guess: Stroke or poison, maybe snake bite. Helen’s: Stroke. Lavon’s: Stroke. Dana’s: Neurological or poison. Diagnosis of Roo’s ailment by Calvin R. White, DVM: (Calvin is a graduate of Auburn University and the best veterinarian I have ever come across. Ada Veterinary Clinic, Inc., where Calvin hangs out and the place I take all my wounded animals, isn’t like the places I used to frequent in the big city. No white coats, no waxed and polished floors, and no nonsense – except banter (see below). Here it’s mostly for horses and cows, but Calvin treats the little ones like Roo with care. He once left a formal dinner at nine o’clock at night to reassemble a dog of mine that had lost a very bad argument with a pack of coyotes. I’d let him work on me if he would do it.) Calvin: "What’s wrong with your cat." Me: "That’s what I love about this place … you’re supposed to tell me and Roo what’s wrong." Calvin: "I mean, what’s he doing?" Me: "He’s stumbling around in circles and he looks funny." Calvin: "Both ways or just one way?" Me: "How many ways can a cat stumble?" Calvin: "I mean is he going clockwise or counter-clockwise?" Me: "Always counter-clockwise." Calvin: "What do you want me to do?" (This is always part of Calvin’s schtick.) Me: "First I want you to figure out what’s wrong; second I want you to tell ME what it is, and third I want you to fix him so he can walk straight again." Calvin: (Picks Roo up by tail, looks up his rear end and makes a phew face; Roo hooks at him). "He’s got CCFR." Me: "What’s THAT?" Calvin: "Counter clockwise feline rotation." Me: "How can you tell by just looking up his rear end?" Calvin: "I looked in his ear too, while you were looking at Darleen." Me: "What do you do for CCFR?" Calvin: "Someone wound him up backwards (glowering at me). He’ll have to be re-wound to the right." Me: "How long will that take?" Calvin: "He’ll probably be on the re-winder overnight." Me: "You’d say that if all he needed was an aspirin. You do that just so you can charge for board." Calvin: "It’s our con. Besides, there has to be some fun. Do you know how many cat, dog and horse rear ends I have to look up." Me: "OK, I’ll call in the morning. How much is all this going to cost? Calvin: "Plenty." Me: "By the way: what’s really wrong?" Calvin: "Inner-ear infection." (You probably think I made all that up, but it’s pretty much the way the conversation went.) BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hi Mr. Crow,  saw this late and would have said inner ear as Bootie had it once.  Altho I didnt get the humor you did when you brought Roo to your Vet.  Hope Roo is doing well now and the only reason he would be going counter clock wise is that he is chasing his tail  :-) Every night around 10:15pm the 3 boys sit and I swear they are conjuring up what each one is going to do to keep waking me up over and over again all night.   It is simply amazing what they come up with  :-) We have baby owls in the old tree across the street that I told you about last year.  What a tree !  Must be over 150 years old.. They are like small pieces of rolled up paper towel.  One fell out and got it back up in the first crook of the tree.  Was afraid that Mama would be mad but what a  *Hoot* I got  :-) Ronnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something is wrong with Roo. [.....] My guess: Stroke or poison, maybe snake bite. Helen’s: Stroke. Lavon’s: Stroke. Dana’s: Neurological or poison. Diagnosis of Roo’s ailment by Calvin R. White, DVM: (Calvin is a graduate of Auburn University and the best veterinarian I have ever come across. Ada Veterinary Clinic, Inc., where Calvin hangs out and the place I take all my wounded animals, isn’t like the places I used to frequent in the big city. No white coats, no waxed and polished floors, and no nonsense – except banter (see below). Here it’s mostly for horses and cows, but Calvin treats the little ones like Roo with care. He once left a formal dinner at nine o’clock at night to reassemble a dog of mine that had lost a very bad argument with a pack of coyotes. I’d let him work on me if he would do it.) Calvin: "What’s wrong with your cat." Me: "That’s what I love about this place … you’re supposed to tell me and Roo what’s wrong." Calvin: "I mean, what’s he doing?" Me: "He’s stumbling around in circles and he looks funny." Calvin: "Both ways or just one way?" Me: "How many ways can a cat stumble?" Calvin: "I mean is he going clockwise or counter-clockwise?" Me: "Always counter-clockwise." Calvin: "What do you want me to do?" (This is always part of Calvin’s schtick.) Me: "First I want you to figure out what’s wrong; second I want you to tell ME what it is, and third I want you to fix him so he can walk straight again." Calvin: (Picks Roo up by tail, looks up his rear end and makes a phew face; Roo hooks at him). "He’s got CCFR." Me: "What’s THAT?" Calvin: "Counter clockwise feline rotation." Me: "How can you tell by just looking up his rear end?" Calvin: "I looked in his ear too, while you were looking at Darleen." Me: "What do you do for CCFR?" Calvin: "Someone wound him up backwards (glowering at me). He’ll have to be re-wound to the right." Me: "How long will that take?" Calvin: "He’ll probably be on the re-winder overnight." Me: "You’d say that if all he needed was an aspirin. You do that just so you can charge for board." Calvin: "It’s our con. Besides, there has to be some fun. Do you know how many cat, dog and horse rear ends I have to look up." Me: "OK, I’ll call in the morning. How much is all this going to cost? Calvin: "Plenty." Me: "By the way: what’s really wrong?" Calvin: "Inner-ear infection." (You probably think I made all that up, but it’s pretty much the way the conversation went.) BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hi Bob.. Over on our PWD mail list we’ve recently been discussing Vestibular Syndrome.  Almost all of the pups that experienced this… recovered quite nicely.  If I remember correctly it took about a week.  If Roo’s diagnosis of inner ear infection is the same as Vestibular Syndrome then I think that it’s just a waiting game.  The initial symptoms sound AWFUL!!  Most of the writers thought their pups were having a seizure or a stroke!!  Someone said that it must be rather like carsickness!  Yuck! Give little Roo some lovin’ from me.  I hope he feels much better soon…. Liz

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Happy dance! Great, silly joy bouncing around the house of chris, lavon & The Margo! Roo’s problem is completely do-able! Now, there’s a big YAHOO!!!!!! will put on the "Linus & Lucy" theme and do happy dance all over the place. Whew! I think you are right, Lavon, and thank you for the celebration, but Roo isn’t well YET. He’s home with bottles of antibiotics and small blue envelopes containing pills, and instructions to call Calvin if anything looks bad "even if it’s after hours," and to call on Monday morning regardless. He still staggers—falls down occasionally—and can’t put all four feet on the floor at the same time. His left rear foot seems to have a mind of its own. I had no idea an ear infection could be this bad. He just tried to get up onto the window sill (his favorite place; the windows run from the ceiling to about 18 inches above the floor) and fell on his ass. I had to lift him to the sill and then he wanted down—CATS! He’s now asleep on the couch. Let him sleep and wake up a new cat. A little cat. I know that the tribulations of a small tabby cat— a sojourner like Roo—are nothing compared to the tribulations of many of the members of our group, but, then—he’s only cat I’ve got. BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hi Bob.. Over on our PWD mail list we’ve recently been discussing Vestibular Syndrome.  Almost all of the pups that experienced this… recovered quite nicely.  If I remember correctly it took about a week.  If Roo’s diagnosis of inner ear infection is the same as Vestibular Syndrome then I think that it’s just a waiting game.  The initial symptoms sound AWFUL!!  Most of the writers thought their pups were having a seizure or a stroke!!  Someone said that it must be rather like carsickness!  Yuck! Give little Roo some lovin’ from me.  I hope he feels much better soon…. Liz

Thanks Liz. Those are encouraging words. The sickness must be hell because every time Roo wakes up he yells just like (and as loud as) a baby person and doesn’t stop until I pick him up. I thought I had all this behind me when I was thirty something. If this lasts a full week I’ll need a shrink … and I guess Roo will too. BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Thanks Liz. Those are encouraging words. The sickness must be hell because every time Roo wakes up he yells just like (and as loud as) a baby person and doesn’t stop until I pick him up. I thought I had all this behind me when I was thirty something. If this lasts a full week I’ll need a shrink … and I guess Roo will too.

Poor little Roo and his precious little nose.  i’m sorry the two of you are going through this, but glad you have each other with which to get through it! Deep peace, Lamonster

Response:

Vets, hell! I want a PEOPLE doc like that!! Teri

| Doncha just LOVE docs like that?  Takes all the anxiety out of a scary | office visit!!  I wish I lived near ya… I’d definitely switch vets! | | Liz | (I’m still laughing and glad Roo will be okie dokie!!) | |

| | | Something is wrong with Roo. | | [.....] | | My guess: Stroke or poison, maybe snake bite. | Helen’s: Stroke. | Lavon’s: Stroke. | Dana’s: Neurological or poison. | | Diagnosis of Roo’s ailment by Calvin R. White, DVM: | (Calvin is a graduate of Auburn University and the best veterinarian I | have ever | come across. Ada Veterinary Clinic, Inc., where Calvin hangs out and the | place I | take all my wounded animals, isn’t like the places I used to frequent in | the big | city. No white coats, no waxed and polished floors, and no nonsense – | except | banter (see below). Here it’s mostly for horses and cows, but Calvin | treats | the little ones like Roo with care. He once left a formal dinner at nine | o’clock | at night to reassemble a dog of mine that had lost a very bad argument | with a | pack of coyotes. I’d let him work on me if he would do it.) | | Calvin: "What’s wrong with your cat." | Me: "That’s what I love about this place … you’re supposed to tell me | and Roo | what’s wrong." | Calvin: "I mean, what’s he doing?" | Me: "He’s stumbling around in circles and he looks funny." | Calvin: "Both ways or just one way?" | Me: "How many ways can a cat stumble?" | Calvin: "I mean is he going clockwise or counter-clockwise?" | Me: "Always counter-clockwise." | Calvin: "What do you want me to do?" (This is always part of Calvin’s | schtick.) | Me: "First I want you to figure out what’s wrong; second I want you to | tell ME | what it is, and third I want you to fix him so he can walk straight | again." | Calvin: (Picks Roo up by tail, looks up his rear end and makes a phew | face; Roo | hooks at him). "He’s got CCFR." | Me: "What’s THAT?" | Calvin: "Counter clockwise feline rotation." | Me: "How can you tell by just looking up his rear end?" | Calvin: "I looked in his ear too, while you were looking at Darleen." | Me: "What do you do for CCFR?" | Calvin: "Someone wound him up backwards (glowering at me). He’ll have to | be | re-wound to the right." | Me: "How long will that take?" | Calvin: "He’ll probably be on the re-winder overnight." | Me: "You’d say that if all he needed was an aspirin. You do that just so | you can | charge for board." | Calvin: "It’s our con. Besides, there has to be some fun. Do you know how | many | cat, dog and horse rear ends I have to look up." | Me: "OK, I’ll call in the morning. How much is all this going to cost? | Calvin: "Plenty." | Me: "By the way: what’s really wrong?" | Calvin: "Inner-ear infection." | | (You probably think I made all that up, but it’s pretty much the way the | conversation went.) | | BobB | | | | | | | —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– | http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! | —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—– | |

Response:

Happy dance! Great, silly joy bouncing around the house of chris, lavon & The Margo! Roo’s problem is completely do-able! Now, there’s a big YAHOO!!!!!! will put on the "Linus & Lucy" theme and do happy dance all over the place. Whew!

I think you are right, Lavon, and thank you for the celebration, but Roo isn’t well YET. He’s home with bottles of antibiotics and small blue envelopes containing pills, and instructions to call Calvin if anything looks bad "even if it’s after hours," and to call on Monday morning regardless. He still staggers—falls down occasionally—and can’t put all four feet on the floor at the same time. His left rear foot seems to have a mind of its own. I had no idea an ear infection could be this bad. He just tried to get up onto the window sill (his favorite place; the windows run from the ceiling to about 18 inches above the floor) and fell on his ass. I had to lift him to the sill and then he wanted down—CATS! He’s now asleep on the couch. Let him sleep and wake up a new cat. A little cat. I know that the tribulations of a small tabby cat— a sojourner like Roo—are nothing compared to the tribulations of many of the members of our group, but, then—he’s only cat I’ve got. BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Aren’t you just a "hoot" Baby owls…I’ve never seen one. Interesting.

Yes, they sure are, but be cautious Ronnie; a momma owl can be the size of a turkey and she’ll be armed with horrendous claws and a beak that she can kill a rabbit with. Keep all eyes open when you pick up a baby owl … momma may take issue. Even barn swallows will get after you if they yhink you are a threat to their babies. The boys down at the feed store have a story they tell about once a year: It seems that a coyote hunter was using a wounded rabbit call (most pitiful thing you’ve ever heard) when a great horned owl struck him in the neck and severed an artery. "IT KILT HIM." Probably not true, but I did think about it when an owl swooped by my face one evening. The closest I’ve come to something that exciting was the mockingbird who took up residence in my tree a couple of years ago in Dallas and sang all night during whatever the mating deal was.

That’s sure how you tell it’s a mockingbird, Michelle. They are the only bird that really sings at night that I know of … at midnight, incessantly, especially if there’s a moon, and especially if they can find a tellephone pole to perch on top of and "tumble" up and down as they jabber. I came close to taking one out with the old Purdy one night, but then I remembered Harper Lee’s book _To Kill a Mockingbird_. A nightingale sings at night — one would think — but I don’t believe there are any of them in the US. Then, of course, there’ the owl again, if you could call that singing. The great horned owl goes hoo, hooo, hooo, which is kind’a nice, but there’s one owl around here — I have never identified the particular kind — that sounds like a turkey in a fight with a tom cat. BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

You’re so right…Midnight was the magic number…and just when you thought it was safe to go back to sleep.  Unfortunately, we also had a telephone pole in the alley behind the house, so I’m sure that was a great spot to hang out. Now that I’m in Colorado and across the street from a field of trees, all I hear are birds and crickets…sure beats the speeding cars :-) Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aren’t you just a "hoot" Baby owls…I’ve never seen one. Interesting. Yes, they sure are, but be cautious Ronnie; a momma owl can be the size of a turkey and she’ll be armed with horrendous claws and a beak that she can kill a rabbit with. Keep all eyes open when you pick up a baby owl … momma may take issue. Even barn swallows will get after you if they yhink you are a threat to their babies. The boys down at the feed store have a story they tell about once a year: It seems that a coyote hunter was using a wounded rabbit call (most pitiful thing you’ve ever heard) when a great horned owl struck him in the neck and severed an artery. "IT KILT HIM." Probably not true, but I did think about it when an owl swooped by my face one evening. The closest I’ve come to something that exciting was the mockingbird who took up residence in my tree a couple of years ago in Dallas and sang all night during whatever the mating deal was. That’s sure how you tell it’s a mockingbird, Michelle. They are the only bird that really sings at night that I know of … at midnight, incessantly, especially if there’s a moon, and especially if they can find a tellephone pole to perch on top of and "tumble" up and down as they jabber. I came close to taking one out with the old Purdy one night, but then I remembered Harper Lee’s book _To Kill a Mockingbird_. A nightingale sings at night — one would think — but I don’t believe there are any of them in the US. Then, of course, there’ the owl again, if you could call that singing. The great horned owl goes hoo, hooo, hooo, which is kind’a nice, but there’s one owl around here — I have never identified the particular kind — that sounds like a turkey in a fight with a tom cat. BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Aren’t you just a "hoot" Baby owls…I’ve never seen one.  Interesting.  The closest I’ve come to something that exciting was the mockingbird who took up residence in my tree a couple of years ago in Dallas and sang all night during whatever the mating deal was.  I called the Agriculture people and they said it was against the law for me to try to "shoo" it out or anything of the sort.  So I had to listen to this thing sing all night long until whatever happened to make it stop.  That drove me and my kitties nuts…whoever heard of birds singing at night (midnight no less). Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Mr. Crow,  saw this late and would have said inner ear as Bootie had it once.  Altho I didnt get the humor you did when you brought Roo to your Vet.  Hope Roo is doing well now and the only reason he would be going counter clock wise is that he is chasing his tail  :-) Every night around 10:15pm the 3 boys sit and I swear they are conjuring up what each one is going to do to keep waking me up over and over again all night.   It is simply amazing what they come up with  :-) We have baby owls in the old tree across the street that I told you about last year.  What a tree !  Must be over 150 years old.. They are like small pieces of rolled up paper towel.  One fell out and got it back up in the first crook of the tree.  Was afraid that Mama would be mad but what a  *Hoot* I got  :-) Ronnie Something is wrong with Roo. [.....] My guess: Stroke or poison, maybe snake bite. Helen’s: Stroke. Lavon’s: Stroke. Dana’s: Neurological or poison. Diagnosis of Roo’s ailment by Calvin R. White, DVM: (Calvin is a graduate of Auburn University and the best veterinarian I have ever come across. Ada Veterinary Clinic, Inc., where Calvin hangs out and the place I take all my wounded animals, isn’t like the places I used to frequent in the big city. No white coats, no waxed and polished floors, and no nonsense – except banter (see below). Here it’s mostly for horses and cows, but Calvin treats the little ones like Roo with care. He once left a formal dinner at nine o’clock at night to reassemble a dog of mine that had lost a very bad argument with a pack of coyotes. I’d let him work on me if he would do it.) Calvin: "What’s wrong with your cat." Me: "That’s what I love about this place … you’re supposed to tell me and Roo what’s wrong." Calvin: "I mean, what’s he doing?" Me: "He’s stumbling around in circles and he looks funny." Calvin: "Both ways or just one way?" Me: "How many ways can a cat stumble?" Calvin: "I mean is he going clockwise or counter-clockwise?" Me: "Always counter-clockwise." Calvin: "What do you want me to do?" (This is always part of Calvin’s schtick.) Me: "First I want you to figure out what’s wrong; second I want you to tell ME what it is, and third I want you to fix him so he can walk straight again." Calvin: (Picks Roo up by tail, looks up his rear end and makes a phew face; Roo hooks at him). "He’s got CCFR." Me: "What’s THAT?" Calvin: "Counter clockwise feline rotation." Me: "How can you tell by just looking up his rear end?" Calvin: "I looked in his ear too, while you were looking at Darleen." Me: "What do you do for CCFR?" Calvin: "Someone wound him up backwards (glowering at me). He’ll have to be re-wound to the right." Me: "How long will that take?" Calvin: "He’ll probably be on the re-winder overnight." Me: "You’d say that if all he needed was an aspirin. You do that just so you can charge for board." Calvin: "It’s our con. Besides, there has to be some fun. Do you know how many cat, dog and horse rear ends I have to look up." Me: "OK, I’ll call in the morning. How much is all this going to cost? Calvin: "Plenty." Me: "By the way: what’s really wrong?" Calvin: "Inner-ear infection." (You probably think I made all that up, but it’s pretty much the way the conversation went.) BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

As long as you dont have to breast feed …… ummmmm Ronnie  (running like the wind)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Bob.. Over on our PWD mail list we’ve recently been discussing Vestibular Syndrome.  Almost all of the pups that experienced this… recovered quite nicely.  If I remember correctly it took about a week.  If Roo’s diagnosis of inner ear infection is the same as Vestibular Syndrome then I think that it’s just a waiting game.  The initial symptoms sound AWFUL!!  Most of the writers thought their pups were having a seizure or a stroke!!  Someone said that it must be rather like carsickness!  Yuck! Give little Roo some lovin’ from me.  I hope he feels much better soon…. Liz Thanks Liz. Those are encouraging words. The sickness must be hell because every time Roo wakes up he yells just like (and as loud as) a baby person and doesn’t stop until I pick him up. I thought I had all this behind me when I was thirty something. If this lasts a full week I’ll need a shrink … and I guess Roo will too. BobB —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

but there’s one owl around here — I have never identified the particular kind — that sounds like a turkey in a fight with a tom cat.

would that be a screetch owl perchance? I’m not sure about the turkey part , or if you are in their range,, but they can sound a lot like a cat fight. Bear

Response:

Question:

http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

Response:

http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

They said putting the baby in a car is much more dangerous than what they did.  I also heard a rumor that they were trying to get the croc to breast feed the baby…Is that Suzanne I see in the crowd? hehe dwhite

Response:

Lighten up.  I think he knows a little more about what he is doing than those left wing liberals that cried wolf!!  Never seen anyone care more for all creatures on this planet than him, let alone how he cares for his family.  Bindi is probably one of the luckiest kids on the planet, and now her brother too. Clinton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

Response:

Lighten up.  I think he knows a little more about what he is doing than those left wing liberals that cried wolf!!  Never seen anyone care more for all creatures on this planet than him, let alone how he cares for his family.  Bindi is probably one of the luckiest kids on the planet, and now her brother too. Clinton

The guy is a confirmed prick now, it’s OK when he makes an arse of himself at his own risk but when he takes the lives of others in his self centred hands it’s time he got a wake up call. The dope said in response to all the fuss "people can trip up anywhere, it would need a meteorite to strike australia and then be followed by an earthquake 6.6 like they had in Iran to make me fall over with my kid" Arsehole. http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

‘You can’t win ‘em all.’ Lord Haw Haw. Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities I am in the top 0.801% richest people in the world. There are 5,951,930,035 people poorer than me If you’re really interested I am the 48,069,965 richest person in the world. And I’m keeping the bloody lot. So sue me. http://www.globalrichlist.com/ Newsgroup ettiquette 1) Tell everyone the Trolls don’t bother you. 2) Say you’ve killfiled them, yet continue to respond. 3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself. 4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining     they’re having no effect. 5)  Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know     how to avoid them. 6)  Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping     manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored. 7)  Eat vast quantities of pies. 8)  Forget to brush your teeth for several decades. 9)  Help a demon.local poster with their email while     secretly reading it. 10) Pretend you’re a hard bastard when in fact you’re     as bent as a roundabout. 11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet 12) Die of old age 13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you     will have a penis the girls can see. "If you would’nt talk to them in a bar, don’t *uckin’ vote for them" "Australia was not *discovered* it was invaded" The Big Yin.

Response:

Lighten up.  I think he knows a little more about what he is doing than those left wing liberals that cried wolf!!  Never seen anyone care more for all creatures on this planet than him, let alone how he cares for his family.  Bindi is probably one of the luckiest kids on the planet, and now her brother too. Clinton

The given reason was to make the infant ‘croc savvy’, and that it was a great ’sensory experience’ for the child.  Last I checked, a one month old wouldn’t gain much from the event.  It was a publicity stunt, it went bad, we’ll see how it plays out.  Who said ‘no publicity is bad publicity’?? Haven’t heard of Steve Irwin in the news lately, now have you?  Speaking of which, who has listened to Jermaine Jackson in the past twenty years, now he’s interviewed daily!!  Expect an album soon. Chris

Response:

First off…  I definitely agree that Steve Irwin’s stunt (with baby in tow) was *not* the thing to do.  I’m certain his p/r people are shaking their heads about now… But I have enjoyed his many outdoor travelogue type tv shows…  if for no other reason that he has always been a spunky/gutsy type narrator participant.  This particular presentation sure got him some cheap highly placed p/r (albeit negative though?)…  he made the inside front section of our Los Angeles Times…  photo and all. Bill

Response:

Lighten up.  I think he knows a little more about what he is doing than those left wing liberals that cried wolf!!  Never seen anyone care more for all creatures on this planet than him, let alone how he cares for his family.  Bindi is probably one of the luckiest kids on the planet, and now her brother too. Clinton

"You did not have sexual relations with that woman" did you?

Response:

But you know he was raised that same way!  It’s not like he was going to give the baby to the croc for dinner or something.  Without all the facts we shouldn’t judge anyone. Countdown to Inspiration Countdown to Carnival Inspiration!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

Response:

I’m not going to judge him,but i think he is STUPID

Response:

But you know he was raised that same way!  It’s not like he was going to give the baby to the croc for dinner or something.  Without all the facts we shouldn’t judge anyone.

ANd … itt’s a good thing he’s not dyslexic and knows right from left … Be seeing you In the Village Number 6

Response:

This is my second posting.  Hopefully it will get entered properly.

Some how we have ended up with three (slightly different) threads<  BW First off…  I definitely agree that Steve Irwin’s stunt (with baby in tow) was *not* the thing to do.  I’m certain his p/r people are shaking their heads about now… But I have enjoyed his many outdoor travelogue type tv shows…  if for no other reason that he has always been a spunky/gutsy type narrator participant.  This particular presentation sure got him some cheap highly placed p/r (albeit negative though?)…  he made the inside front section of our Los Angeles Times…  photo and all. Bill

Response:

But you know he was raised that same way!  It’s not like he was going to give the baby to the croc for dinner or something.

I bet you take BABIES on cruises too. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

I know I’m way off topic but WHAT THE HELL. <SNIP The given reason was to make the infant ‘croc savvy’, and that it was a

great ’sensory experience’ for the child. Last I checked, a one month old wouldn’t gain much from the event.   <SNIP      Chris JDR…..The given reason people take their infants on cruises is to make them "cruise savvy" and that it would be a great experience for them. Last I checked, a one month old wouldn’t gain anything from the event.

Response:

"You did not have sexual relations with that woman" did you?  

OR that croc??  JDR

Response:

"You did not have sexual relations with that woman" did you?   OR that croc??  JDR

LOL I sure enjoy watching peeps trying to justify ole Steve dangling his kids life around like that. Maybe he can go on a cruise and hold his baby by his teeth whilst rock climbing. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! That’s just it.  I cringed the same way I cringed when I saw the MJ stunt with his baby on that balcony.  What if he had lost his grip on the child?  What if the child had squirmed just enough to slip out of his daddy’s hands?  It might have been a real tragedy.

I think this is way worse than Michael Jackson’s, Jackson’s was spur of the moment and irresponsible. This one was planned and even though Irwin   knows what he is doing, what he did was very dangerous. Ben S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Sorry, NOPE my daughter is 10 and going on her 1st cruise in March with us. What is it to you anyways if I did? It is NONE of your business what I do in my life! Countdown to Inspiration Countdown to Carnival Inspiration!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But you know he was raised that same way!  It’s not like he was going to give the baby to the croc for dinner or something. I bet you take BABIES on cruises too. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! That’s just it.  I cringed the same way I cringed when I saw the MJ stunt with his baby on that balcony.  What if he had lost his grip on the child?  What if the child had squirmed just enough to slip out of his daddy’s hands?  It might have been a real tragedy. I think this is way worse than Michael Jackson’s, Jackson’s was spur of the moment and irresponsible. This one was planned and even though Irwin   knows what he is doing, what he did was very dangerous.

Yeah, I think Irwin probably knew what he was doing and held that baby tightly.  But it was still a stupid thing to do for a stupid reason.  That baby could get sensory stimulation in much safer ways (maybe he should ask some child care experts for non-crocodile activities). Eileen (Psycho Tangerine)

Response:

Eileen (Psycho Tangerine)

LOL The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

I cringe too, when I see fathers tossing their babies up into the air then catching them. …. But, I’ve never seen one drop a kid yet. ..I’ll tell you what really bothers me more than anything is watching the blatant interference of government bureaucrats (aka child care workers), into one’s family — based simply on rumour. …And rumour started by individuals who have nothing better to do than interfere with, and judge the conduct of others. ….And, worse..  Feel it is their right to do so.   ..I recall a few years back, a call came in over the police scanner. Someone had phoned in because they saw a kid having a tantrum, and the parent had stopped the vehicle, and was proceeding to remove the child from the vehicle. (probably threatening him with walking home)…Naturally, the police said they would be paying the family a visit.  …Now I wonder how will that affect the parent’s conduct in the future when their kid throws a tantrum, say in the local mall. …And, more importantly, how will it affect the child’s conduct. I don’t know whether MJ is guilty or not, but the conduct of that attorney and the Sheriff (at the initial news conference) was appalling. ..Its like "If you, or anyone you know was abused by MJ (or you would like to maybe get hold of some of his money), please come forward". …Like a witch hunt, plain and simple. As for the baby over the rail. Not a good thing, but I know if I would have been holding the baby, he’d be in absolutely no danger of falling. Likewise, with any individual reading this. ….Including those who have playfully tossed their children above their head. …. And likewise with the croc. man.  …Jon

Response:

I cringe too, when I see fathers tossing their babies up into the air then catching them. …. But, I’ve never seen one drop a kid yet. I have  …  or more to the truth, I have seen the results of so-called rough "play" between parents, usually fathers.

But it’s not all bad – I recall reading an article in a parent’s magazine about why it is important to have both parents – that for a child’s development, you need ‘mommy games’ and ‘daddy games’.  Moms, whether intentionally or not, tend toward educational games – peek-a-boo, counting songs, nursery rhymes that teach language, and so on.  Dads lean more toward thrills and activity – jumping and swinging and tossing and movement.  The point of the article was that there needed to be a strong figure of both types involved in the baby’s development, even if the traditional family wasn’t a choice. And I’ve never seen a father drop a kid, but I certainly have seen a couple take spit-up in the face because they had little knowledge of infant digestive systems. Chris

Response:

It *is* their right to do so.   In fact, it is their responsibility to report anything or anyone who may be harming a child.   To continue living in a free society, we all have to help each other, especially children, by being vigilant.  Having said that, it is NOT at all right to use child care/protective services as a way to be vindictive or retaliatory, say, during a nasty divorce or child custody fight.  Those same "government bureaucrats" you’re damning have seen that kind of thing far too many times to be easily duped.

It’s funny how people perceive the same things so differently. Hubby is on the other side of the child abuse issue. He’s been gone up to your neck of the woods and will be until end of Jan. There is a network that assists in the detection of children being abused and actually operates more in the fashion of exoneration than discovering potential violators. It is international and it had been operating very successfully. They even were abl;e to stay up during the NE power failures (hacked) without data loss or interruption of service. Until HIPAA came along. http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/ Now, they have until the end of the month to meet the requirements of the act or be shut down and/or heavily fined. Federal prosecution is possible. To say the least, I am less than happy about it. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

Karen…. As soon as I started reading your reply, I thought: "Oh, oh — a government bureaucrat."  …And of course you confirmed it later on. ..Nothing personal, but your answer is quite typical. …I have never met a bureaucrat yet that didn’t hold the opinion that the world would go to hell in a hand basket if they weren’t around to save it.   …You are incorrect with your assumption that it is ok for an outsider to interfere into another’s family. …Is it any wonder we see so many kids on the streets, while the parents are sitting at the local pub drinking their problems away. One by one, the authority and rights of the parents have gradually been stripped away by a bunch of Orwellian individuals who in most cases have had no first hand experience of raising chidren, other than what a textbook provides.   …Even at our Campground business, I have seen no end of Californians pass through who have given up everything to move themselves and their families to Alaska.  …Not to get away from the stealing and the violence of the big city, but to get away from a "big brother" who is hell-bent on instituting a state-run family.   …Jon

Response:

.I have never met a bureaucrat yet that didn’t hold the opinion that the world would go to hell in a hand basket if they weren’t around to save it.

What a stupid thing to say. You must live in a basement. All the time. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

What does any of this have to do with cruising? This newsgroup is getting loaded with OT material. " No one promises you tomorrow"…. Walter Payton, 10/7/84.

Response:

http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

Response:

http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

They said putting the baby in a car is much more dangerous than what they did.  I also heard a rumor that they were trying to get the croc to breast feed the baby…Is that Suzanne I see in the crowd? hehe dwhite

Response:

Lighten up.  I think he knows a little more about what he is doing than those left wing liberals that cried wolf!!  Never seen anyone care more for all creatures on this planet than him, let alone how he cares for his family.  Bindi is probably one of the luckiest kids on the planet, and now her brother too. Clinton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

Response:

Lighten up.  I think he knows a little more about what he is doing than those left wing liberals that cried wolf!!  Never seen anyone care more for all creatures on this planet than him, let alone how he cares for his family.  Bindi is probably one of the luckiest kids on the planet, and now her brother too. Clinton

The guy is a confirmed prick now, it’s OK when he makes an arse of himself at his own risk but when he takes the lives of others in his self centred hands it’s time he got a wake up call. The dope said in response to all the fuss "people can trip up anywhere, it would need a meteorite to strike australia and then be followed by an earthquake 6.6 like they had in Iran to make me fall over with my kid" Arsehole. http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

‘You can’t win ‘em all.’ Lord Haw Haw. Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities I am in the top 0.801% richest people in the world. There are 5,951,930,035 people poorer than me If you’re really interested I am the 48,069,965 richest person in the world. And I’m keeping the bloody lot. So sue me. http://www.globalrichlist.com/ Newsgroup ettiquette 1) Tell everyone the Trolls don’t bother you. 2) Say you’ve killfiled them, yet continue to respond. 3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself. 4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining     they’re having no effect. 5)  Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know     how to avoid them. 6)  Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping     manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored. 7)  Eat vast quantities of pies. 8)  Forget to brush your teeth for several decades. 9)  Help a demon.local poster with their email while     secretly reading it. 10) Pretend you’re a hard bastard when in fact you’re     as bent as a roundabout. 11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet 12) Die of old age 13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you     will have a penis the girls can see. "If you would’nt talk to them in a bar, don’t *uckin’ vote for them" "Australia was not *discovered* it was invaded" The Big Yin.

Response:

Lighten up.  I think he knows a little more about what he is doing than those left wing liberals that cried wolf!!  Never seen anyone care more for all creatures on this planet than him, let alone how he cares for his family.  Bindi is probably one of the luckiest kids on the planet, and now her brother too. Clinton

The given reason was to make the infant ‘croc savvy’, and that it was a great ’sensory experience’ for the child.  Last I checked, a one month old wouldn’t gain much from the event.  It was a publicity stunt, it went bad, we’ll see how it plays out.  Who said ‘no publicity is bad publicity’?? Haven’t heard of Steve Irwin in the news lately, now have you?  Speaking of which, who has listened to Jermaine Jackson in the past twenty years, now he’s interviewed daily!!  Expect an album soon. Chris

Response:

First off…  I definitely agree that Steve Irwin’s stunt (with baby in tow) was *not* the thing to do.  I’m certain his p/r people are shaking their heads about now… But I have enjoyed his many outdoor travelogue type tv shows…  if for no other reason that he has always been a spunky/gutsy type narrator participant.  This particular presentation sure got him some cheap highly placed p/r (albeit negative though?)…  he made the inside front section of our Los Angeles Times…  photo and all. Bill

Response:

Lighten up.  I think he knows a little more about what he is doing than those left wing liberals that cried wolf!!  Never seen anyone care more for all creatures on this planet than him, let alone how he cares for his family.  Bindi is probably one of the luckiest kids on the planet, and now her brother too. Clinton

"You did not have sexual relations with that woman" did you?

Response:

But you know he was raised that same way!  It’s not like he was going to give the baby to the croc for dinner or something.  Without all the facts we shouldn’t judge anyone. Countdown to Inspiration Countdown to Carnival Inspiration!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://go.jitbot.com/croc_hunter Watch this video clip of the crocodile hunter (aka Steve Irwin) feeds crocodile with his baby on one hand. After feeding the croc, he’s like playing barbie and ken right in from the croc.! This is outrageous! I can’t bare this! If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! Tommy

Response:

I’m not going to judge him,but i think he is STUPID

Response:

But you know he was raised that same way!  It’s not like he was going to give the baby to the croc for dinner or something.  Without all the facts we shouldn’t judge anyone.

ANd … itt’s a good thing he’s not dyslexic and knows right from left … Be seeing you In the Village Number 6

Response:

This is my second posting.  Hopefully it will get entered properly.

Some how we have ended up with three (slightly different) threads<  BW First off…  I definitely agree that Steve Irwin’s stunt (with baby in tow) was *not* the thing to do.  I’m certain his p/r people are shaking their heads about now… But I have enjoyed his many outdoor travelogue type tv shows…  if for no other reason that he has always been a spunky/gutsy type narrator participant.  This particular presentation sure got him some cheap highly placed p/r (albeit negative though?)…  he made the inside front section of our Los Angeles Times…  photo and all. Bill

Response:

But you know he was raised that same way!  It’s not like he was going to give the baby to the croc for dinner or something.

I bet you take BABIES on cruises too. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

I know I’m way off topic but WHAT THE HELL. <SNIP The given reason was to make the infant ‘croc savvy’, and that it was a

great ’sensory experience’ for the child. Last I checked, a one month old wouldn’t gain much from the event.   <SNIP      Chris JDR…..The given reason people take their infants on cruises is to make them "cruise savvy" and that it would be a great experience for them. Last I checked, a one month old wouldn’t gain anything from the event.

Response:

"You did not have sexual relations with that woman" did you?  

OR that croc??  JDR

Response:

"You did not have sexual relations with that woman" did you?   OR that croc??  JDR

LOL I sure enjoy watching peeps trying to justify ole Steve dangling his kids life around like that. Maybe he can go on a cruise and hold his baby by his teeth whilst rock climbing. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! That’s just it.  I cringed the same way I cringed when I saw the MJ stunt with his baby on that balcony.  What if he had lost his grip on the child?  What if the child had squirmed just enough to slip out of his daddy’s hands?  It might have been a real tragedy.

I think this is way worse than Michael Jackson’s, Jackson’s was spur of the moment and irresponsible. This one was planned and even though Irwin   knows what he is doing, what he did was very dangerous. Ben S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Sorry, NOPE my daughter is 10 and going on her 1st cruise in March with us. What is it to you anyways if I did? It is NONE of your business what I do in my life! Countdown to Inspiration Countdown to Carnival Inspiration!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But you know he was raised that same way!  It’s not like he was going to give the baby to the croc for dinner or something. I bet you take BABIES on cruises too. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you think Michael Jackson is bad..this is 10 times worse! That’s just it.  I cringed the same way I cringed when I saw the MJ stunt with his baby on that balcony.  What if he had lost his grip on the child?  What if the child had squirmed just enough to slip out of his daddy’s hands?  It might have been a real tragedy. I think this is way worse than Michael Jackson’s, Jackson’s was spur of the moment and irresponsible. This one was planned and even though Irwin   knows what he is doing, what he did was very dangerous.

Yeah, I think Irwin probably knew what he was doing and held that baby tightly.  But it was still a stupid thing to do for a stupid reason.  That baby could get sensory stimulation in much safer ways (maybe he should ask some child care experts for non-crocodile activities). Eileen (Psycho Tangerine)

Response:

Eileen (Psycho Tangerine)

LOL The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

I cringe too, when I see fathers tossing their babies up into the air then catching them. …. But, I’ve never seen one drop a kid yet. ..I’ll tell you what really bothers me more than anything is watching the blatant interference of government bureaucrats (aka child care workers), into one’s family — based simply on rumour. …And rumour started by individuals who have nothing better to do than interfere with, and judge the conduct of others. ….And, worse..  Feel it is their right to do so.   ..I recall a few years back, a call came in over the police scanner. Someone had phoned in because they saw a kid having a tantrum, and the parent had stopped the vehicle, and was proceeding to remove the child from the vehicle. (probably threatening him with walking home)…Naturally, the police said they would be paying the family a visit.  …Now I wonder how will that affect the parent’s conduct in the future when their kid throws a tantrum, say in the local mall. …And, more importantly, how will it affect the child’s conduct. I don’t know whether MJ is guilty or not, but the conduct of that attorney and the Sheriff (at the initial news conference) was appalling. ..Its like "If you, or anyone you know was abused by MJ (or you would like to maybe get hold of some of his money), please come forward". …Like a witch hunt, plain and simple. As for the baby over the rail. Not a good thing, but I know if I would have been holding the baby, he’d be in absolutely no danger of falling. Likewise, with any individual reading this. ….Including those who have playfully tossed their children above their head. …. And likewise with the croc. man.  …Jon

Response:

I cringe too, when I see fathers tossing their babies up into the air then catching them. …. But, I’ve never seen one drop a kid yet. I have  …  or more to the truth, I have seen the results of so-called rough "play" between parents, usually fathers.

But it’s not all bad – I recall reading an article in a parent’s magazine about why it is important to have both parents – that for a child’s development, you need ‘mommy games’ and ‘daddy games’.  Moms, whether intentionally or not, tend toward educational games – peek-a-boo, counting songs, nursery rhymes that teach language, and so on.  Dads lean more toward thrills and activity – jumping and swinging and tossing and movement.  The point of the article was that there needed to be a strong figure of both types involved in the baby’s development, even if the traditional family wasn’t a choice. And I’ve never seen a father drop a kid, but I certainly have seen a couple take spit-up in the face because they had little knowledge of infant digestive systems. Chris

Response:

It *is* their right to do so.   In fact, it is their responsibility to report anything or anyone who may be harming a child.   To continue living in a free society, we all have to help each other, especially children, by being vigilant.  Having said that, it is NOT at all right to use child care/protective services as a way to be vindictive or retaliatory, say, during a nasty divorce or child custody fight.  Those same "government bureaucrats" you’re damning have seen that kind of thing far too many times to be easily duped.

It’s funny how people perceive the same things so differently. Hubby is on the other side of the child abuse issue. He’s been gone up to your neck of the woods and will be until end of Jan. There is a network that assists in the detection of children being abused and actually operates more in the fashion of exoneration than discovering potential violators. It is international and it had been operating very successfully. They even were abl;e to stay up during the NE power failures (hacked) without data loss or interruption of service. Until HIPAA came along. http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/ Now, they have until the end of the month to meet the requirements of the act or be shut down and/or heavily fined. Federal prosecution is possible. To say the least, I am less than happy about it. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

Karen…. As soon as I started reading your reply, I thought: "Oh, oh — a government bureaucrat."  …And of course you confirmed it later on. ..Nothing personal, but your answer is quite typical. …I have never met a bureaucrat yet that didn’t hold the opinion that the world would go to hell in a hand basket if they weren’t around to save it.   …You are incorrect with your assumption that it is ok for an outsider to interfere into another’s family. …Is it any wonder we see so many kids on the streets, while the parents are sitting at the local pub drinking their problems away. One by one, the authority and rights of the parents have gradually been stripped away by a bunch of Orwellian individuals who in most cases have had no first hand experience of raising chidren, other than what a textbook provides.   …Even at our Campground business, I have seen no end of Californians pass through who have given up everything to move themselves and their families to Alaska.  …Not to get away from the stealing and the violence of the big city, but to get away from a "big brother" who is hell-bent on instituting a state-run family.   …Jon

Response:

.I have never met a bureaucrat yet that didn’t hold the opinion that the world would go to hell in a hand basket if they weren’t around to save it.

What a stupid thing to say. You must live in a basement. All the time. The Not So Fine Art Of Google http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29A321E6

Response:

What does any of this have to do with cruising? This newsgroup is getting loaded with OT material. " No one promises you tomorrow"…. Walter Payton, 10/7/84.

Response:

OT: Boob implants

Question:

 I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs.  I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the silicone freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing..

Response:

> I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. > I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the silicone >freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing..

that is the stupidest thing i’ve ever heard of, dudenephx. – k i t z – you’re always first when no one’s on your side. http://spinning_plates.tripod.com

Response:

DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >  I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >  I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the silicone > freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing..

Depends on what kind of boobs she got. I don’t think teh baby thing should cause problems of them remaining intact though if her natural breasts change shape they may move around. Silicone does not freeze that easily. She’d have to be really cold before that happened. -M

Response:

On 04 Jan 2004 20:18:16 GMT, dudenephx1…@aol.com (DudeNEPhx1971) wrote: > I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. > I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the silicone >freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing..

1. Yes 2. No =) Watch my mental breakdown as it happens. http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ I’m posting…be very afraid. http://www.lolfun.com/flash_0603/funky_d.cfm Tank goodness for usenet to keep track of my major life events. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." –Mahatma Gandhi

Response:

DudeNEPhx1971 said… >  I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >  I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the silicone > freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing..

Forget about that. Did you know that men can breast feed? http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/milkmen.htm

Response:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 20:51:32 GMT, GT <f…@last.com> wrote: >DudeNEPhx1971 said… >>  I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >>  I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the silicone >> freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing.. >Forget about that. Did you know that men can breast feed? >http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/milkmen.htm

gud grieff! LOL! Watch my mental breakdown as it happens. http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ I’m posting…be very afraid. http://www.lolfun.com/flash_0603/funky_d.cfm Tank goodness for usenet to keep track of my major life events. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." –Mahatma Gandhi

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>>DudeNEPhx1971 said… >>>  I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >>>  I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the >silicone >>> freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing.. >>Forget about that. Did you know that men can breast feed? >>http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/milkmen.htm >gud grieff! LOL!

 Wow, I had no idea.   Mickey better not try that.

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DudeNEPhx1971 writes: > I was wondering if they stay intact after she has > a baby.

Yes. > Will the silicone freeze if she went skiing.

No. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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GT writes: > Did you know that men can breast feed?

Men and women have essentially identical breast anatomy.  Lactation is directed solely by hormones.  So with the right hormones, men can breastfeed.  The reason they normally don’t is that the hormones that stimulate lactation are only secreted in association with pregnancy and childbirth. Men who lactate spontaneously (galactorrhea) may have a serious disease, e.g., breast cancer or other occult neoplasms. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >  I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the > silicone freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing..

HaHa,,I don’t think they will freeze, they are on her body after all. They might get cold if she ski’s topless. My friends wife had hers done a few months ago, she went from a small A-cup to a 34-C. I told her she didn’t need them cause she was pretty anyhow and being 40 and married for 20 years with 2 kids. Funny thing was she asked me what I thought after she got them, she was wearing a tight shirt, I said this is one of the only times I could say this without getting slapped but Nice Tits. My friend was happy as well. — FiRe "Shut up brain,or I’ll stab ya with a Q-tip" Homer J.Simpson "Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy". Ben Franklin www.Station60.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>>DudeNEPhx1971 said… >>>> I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >>>> I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the >>silicone >>>>freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing.. >>>Forget about that. Did you know that men can breast feed? >>>http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/milkmen.htm >>gud grieff! LOL! >  Wow, I had no idea.   > Mickey better not try that.

What prompted that? -M

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>>>DudeNEPhx1971 said… >>>>> I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >>>>> I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the >>>silicone >>>>>freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing.. >>>>Forget about that. Did you know that men can breast feed? >>>>http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/milkmen.htm >>>gud grieff! LOL! >>  Wow, I had no idea.   >> Mickey better not try that. >What prompted that?

I think you once posted about how sensitive your nips were etc.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >> I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >>  I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the >> silicone freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing.. >HaHa,,I don’t think they will freeze, they are on her body after all. They >might get cold if she ski’s topless. >My friends wife had hers done a few months ago, she went from a small A-cup >to a 34-C. I told her she didn’t need them cause she was pretty anyhow and >being 40 and married for 20 years with 2 kids. Funny thing was she asked me >what I thought after she got them, she was wearing a tight shirt, I said >this is one of the only times I could say this without getting slapped but >Nice Tits. My friend was happy as well. >– >FiRe

  You should have said…..umm doesnt the right tit look a bit bigger than left.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>>>>DudeNEPhx1971 said… >>>>>>I heard a rumor that an aquaintance of mine has fake boobs. >>>>>>I was wondering if they stay intact after she has a baby. Will the >>>>silicone >>>>>>freeze if she went skiing. This chick does lot of skiing.. >>>>>Forget about that. Did you know that men can breast feed? >>>>>http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/milkmen.htm >>>>gud grieff! LOL! >>> Wow, I had no idea.   >>>Mickey better not try that. >>What prompted that? > I think you once posted about how sensitive your nips were etc.

oh…okay. I am not looking forward to breastfeeding. I generally hate most things to do with babies. -M

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Ms Pnoopie Pnats wrote: > On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 20:51:32 GMT, GT <f…@last.com> wrote: >>Forget about that. Did you know that men can breast feed? >>http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/milkmen.htm > gud grieff! LOL!

Augh I didn’t need that before bed! *attacks GT with snowballs* — "We expect the aggressors to use anything, we don’t rule out that in their depression at being vanquished, those losers will become hysterical and commit even more folly."   – Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, Iraqi (mis)Information Minister

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FireFighter wrote:

 I said this is one of the only times I could say this > without getting slapped but Nice Tits. My friend was happy as well.

: )

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Mxsmanic said… > GT writes: > > Did you know that men can breast feed? > Men and women have essentially identical breast anatomy.  Lactation is > directed solely by hormones.  So with the right hormones, men can > breastfeed.  The reason they normally don’t is that the hormones that > stimulate lactation are only secreted in association with pregnancy and > childbirth. > Men who lactate spontaneously (galactorrhea) may have a serious disease, > e.g., breast cancer or other occult neoplasms.

According to that web site, men can be induced to lactate with repeated use of breast pumps or by actually having a baby attempting to breast feed long enough. Unfortunately, it causes the breast to enlarge, possibly permanently, so the guy might end up being an A cup after it is over. Man, it would suck getting breast cancer as a man. Not only would you risk dying, but when someone asked what kind of cancer you had, you would have to hang your head in shame and mutter ‘breast cancer’. ‘Huh? I didn’t hear you.’ ‘Breast cancer’, (still mumbling). ‘Huh? Did you say BREAST CANCER? Bwahahahhaha!’

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"FireFighter" <Ask me for i…@Hotmail.com> said… > HaHa,,I don’t think they will freeze, they are on her body after all. They > might get cold if she ski’s topless. > My friends wife had hers done a few months ago, she went from a small A-cup > to a 34-C. I told her she didn’t need them cause she was pretty anyhow and > being 40 and married for 20 years with 2 kids. Funny thing was she asked me > what I thought after she got them, she was wearing a tight shirt, I said > this is one of the only times I could say this without getting slapped but > Nice Tits. My friend was happy as well.

I don’t understand why women care about breast size. I can’t think of anything less important than that.

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"GT" <f…@last.com> wrote in message

news:MPG.1a63a6dc89a98f7c989820@netnews.comcast.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "FireFighter" <Ask me for i…@Hotmail.com> said… > > HaHa,,I don’t think they will freeze, they are on her body after all. They > > might get cold if she ski’s topless. > > My friends wife had hers done a few months ago, she went from a small A-cup > > to a 34-C. I told her she didn’t need them cause she was pretty anyhow and > > being 40 and married for 20 years with 2 kids. Funny thing was she asked me > > what I thought after she got them, she was wearing a tight shirt, I said > > this is one of the only times I could say this without getting slapped but > > Nice Tits. My friend was happy as well. > I don’t understand why women care about breast size. I can’t think of > anything less important than that.

They see men drooling over big breasted women so they view big breasts as good for attracting men.  Similar to why men obsess over the size of their equipment. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

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GT wrote: > "FireFighter" <Ask me for i…@Hotmail.com> said… > > HaHa,,I don’t think they will freeze, they are on her body after all. They > > might get cold if she ski’s topless. > > My friends wife had hers done a few months ago, she went from a small A-cup > > to a 34-C. I told her she didn’t need them cause she was pretty anyhow and > > being 40 and married for 20 years with 2 kids. Funny thing was she asked me > > what I thought after she got them, she was wearing a tight shirt, I said > > this is one of the only times I could say this without getting slapped but > > Nice Tits. My friend was happy as well. > I don’t understand why women care about breast size. I can’t think of > anything less important than that.

Navel size? ************************ Noah

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GT writes: > According to that web site, men can be induced to lactate with repeated > use of breast pumps or by actually having a baby attempting to breast > feed long enough.

Yes, that works for both men and women. > Unfortunately, it causes the breast to enlarge, possibly permanently, > so the guy might end up being an A cup after it is over.

That may be part of his objective. > Man, it would suck getting breast cancer as a man.

Yes, it would.  Breast cancer in men metastasizes very quickly, since there is little local tissue to invade, and the prognosis for breast cancer is much poorer in men than in women.  However, it is quite rare in men, and when it does occur, it usually occurs very late in life. > Not only would you risk dying, but when someone asked what > kind of cancer you had, you would have to hang your head in > shame and mutter ‘breast cancer’.

What’s shameful about breast cancer? — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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"FireFighter" <Ask me for i…@Hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:7pCdnbTnV9wzEmWiRVn-hw@comcast.com>… > HaHa,,I don’t think they will freeze, they are on her body after all. They > might get cold if she ski’s topless. > My friends wife had hers done a few months ago, she went from a small A-cup > to a 34-C. I told her she didn’t need them cause she was pretty anyhow and > being 40 and married for 20 years with 2 kids. Funny thing was she asked me > what I thought after she got them, she was wearing a tight shirt, I said > this is one of the only times I could say this without getting slapped but > Nice Tits. My friend was happy as well.

It depends on what the implant is made of (more than one type), what the temperature is, and what the body temperature is Plastic surgery is fascinating http://www.forartist.com/forensic/modification/mj/jackson.htm

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Doe/tom, tzippy loves you

Question:

hey doe-rk,, tom pal,, i have a great idea , why dont you hook up with tzipster,, she is hot!!,, you could date,, then marry,, etc.  i think you both would get along just great,, you share similar interest and both have monsterchausen 2×4 proxy,,, and are trolls,, you could raise a family of troll together,, mom and daddy freaks!!!!!  so think about it and email tzippy ,, she is a single white female,, on mondays,, then  a martian on tuesdays,, ,, she like to play games with people,, and loves to be tipped over in her wheelchair,, it sexually stimulates her,,  she is easy to beat too,, with a bat!! or club.  please doe/tom/shithead,, give tzippy an eamil and then you both can find each other ,, fall in love,,, share long winter nights together,, what do you think tom,, she told me she really likes you,, and would like to start a porno site with you ,, live webcam feed,, on the barn amimal show, starring monty the moose!!!!!  i bet the  kind folks here would agree that you need a relationship to take up your spare time you seem to have alot of,, and we would chip in for your peanutbuttermoon, send you both on a oneway trip to the luxurious tropical land called HELL,, for eternal damnation together,, 2 sick freakin devils !!! how roman-tic ,, or is it greek??? with animals?? anywho let us matchmakers know doe, tom ,shithead,, whatever you like being called,  you would be    mr.& mrs.tom shithead                          666 cripsy st. south                           mt.damnation new hell                             90210  both of you will wear black to your wedding, to signify evil inside of both of you/all of you’s i am so excited,, doe and tzippy ,, you can spend all day pushing her over,and answerng the door when the poilice show up ,,everyday,,over and over let us know how the romance goes you to love freaks!!! bobD  ??

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<giggle> good one.. — Laura "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca> wrote in message

news:Hroob.230924$pl3.225292@pd7tw3no… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hey doe-rk,, tom pal,, i have a great idea , why dont you hook up with > tzipster,, she is hot!!,, you could date,, then marry,, etc. >  i think you both would get along just great,, you share similar interest > and both have monsterchausen 2×4 proxy,,, and are trolls,, you could raise a > family of troll together,, mom and daddy freaks!!!!! >  so think about it and email tzippy ,, she is a single white female,, on > mondays,, then  a martian on tuesdays,, ,, she like to play games with > people,, and loves to be tipped over in her wheelchair,, it sexually > stimulates her,,  she is easy to beat too,, with a bat!! or club. >  please doe/tom/shithead,, give tzippy an eamil and then you both can find > each other ,, fall in love,,, share long winter nights together,, > what do you think tom,, she told me she really likes you,, and would like to > start a porno site with you ,, live webcam feed,, on the barn amimal show, > starring monty the moose!!!!! >  i bet the  kind folks here would agree that you need a relationship to take > up your spare time you seem to have alot of,, and we would chip in for your > peanutbuttermoon, send you both on a oneway trip to the luxurious tropical > land called HELL,, for eternal damnation together,, 2 sick freakin devils > !!! how roman-tic ,, or is it greek??? with animals?? > anywho let us matchmakers know doe, tom ,shithead,, whatever you like being > called, >  you would be    mr.& mrs.tom shithead >                          666 cripsy st. south >                           mt.damnation new hell >                             90210 >  both of you will wear black to your wedding, to signify evil inside of both > of you/all of you’s > i am so excited,, doe and tzippy ,, you can spend all day pushing her > over,and answerng the door when the poilice show up ,,everyday,,over and > over > let us know how the romance goes you to love freaks!!! > bobD  ??

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things i do late at night,, i amaze myself sometmes!!!!! if you think its funny imagine me writing it at midnight and giggling the entire time as i just came up with more and more funny shit,, i should be a commedian!!!! on stage too stand up!!! i could do an entire show on doe/tom and tzippy and the trial and tribulations of their new found love!!!!! the daily wheelchair knockin over,, the  multiple personailities, the police calls, the bribes,,  if you bribe him enough he will marry you,,so he can have someone love him too. bobD "Laura" <the_happy_w…@myrealbox.bom> wrote in message

news:Y3xob.700$gD1.269@fe2.columbus.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <giggle> good one.. > — > Laura > "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca> wrote in message > news:Hroob.230924$pl3.225292@pd7tw3no… > > hey doe-rk,, tom pal,, i have a great idea , why dont you hook up with > > tzipster,, she is hot!!,, you could date,, then marry,, etc. > >  i think you both would get along just great,, you share similar interest > > and both have monsterchausen 2×4 proxy,,, and are trolls,, you could raise > a > > family of troll together,, mom and daddy freaks!!!!! > >  so think about it and email tzippy ,, she is a single white female,, on > > mondays,, then  a martian on tuesdays,, ,, she like to play games with > > people,, and loves to be tipped over in her wheelchair,, it sexually > > stimulates her,,  she is easy to beat too,, with a bat!! or club. > >  please doe/tom/shithead,, give tzippy an eamil and then you both can find > > each other ,, fall in love,,, share long winter nights together,, > > what do you think tom,, she told me she really likes you,, and would like > to > > start a porno site with you ,, live webcam feed,, on the barn amimal show, > > starring monty the moose!!!!! > >  i bet the  kind folks here would agree that you need a relationship to > take > > up your spare time you seem to have alot of,, and we would chip in for > your > > peanutbuttermoon, send you both on a oneway trip to the luxurious tropical > > land called HELL,, for eternal damnation together,, 2 sick freakin devils > > !!! how roman-tic ,, or is it greek??? with animals?? > > anywho let us matchmakers know doe, tom ,shithead,, whatever you like > being > > called, > >  you would be    mr.& mrs.tom shithead > >                          666 cripsy st. south > >                           mt.damnation new hell > >                             90210 > >  both of you will wear black to your wedding, to signify evil inside of > both > > of you/all of you’s > > i am so excited,, doe and tzippy ,, you can spend all day pushing her > > over,and answerng the door when the poilice show up ,,everyday,,over and > > over > > let us know how the romance goes you to love freaks!!! > > bobD  ??

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Bob; > hey doe-rk,, tom pal,, i have a great idea , why dont you hook up with > tzipster,, she is hot!!,, you could date,, then marry,, etc. >  i think you both would get along just great,, you share similar interest > and both have monsterchausen 2×4 proxy,,, and are trolls,, you could raise a > family of troll together,, mom and daddy freaks!!!!!

Shudder to think of the offspring these two mutants would produce!  GACK! I think this world has enough problems withou having to deal with this! That’s too scary, even on Halloween! Sylvia

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I’ll just stick to <kiss kiss> with my silly old doey pookums.. I might have to push zipper out of her chair though if she does try to hook up with him. You seem to be good at that…maybe you help me… :-) — Laura "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca> wrote in message

news:JrAob.237162$9l5.34012@pd7tw2no… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  if you bribe him enough he will marry you,,so he can have someone love him > too. > bobD > "Laura" <the_happy_w…@myrealbox.bom> wrote in message > news:Y3xob.700$gD1.269@fe2.columbus.rr.com… > > <giggle> good one.. > > — > > Laura > > "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca> wrote in message > > news:Hroob.230924$pl3.225292@pd7tw3no… > > > hey doe-rk,, tom pal,, i have a great idea , why dont you hook up with > > > tzipster,, she is hot!!,, you could date,, then marry,, etc. > > >  i think you both would get along just great,, you share similar > interest > > > and both have monsterchausen 2×4 proxy,,, and are trolls,, you could > raise > > a > > > family of troll together,, mom and daddy freaks!!!!! > > >  so think about it and email tzippy ,, she is a single white female,, on > > > mondays,, then  a martian on tuesdays,, ,, she like to play games with > > > people,, and loves to be tipped over in her wheelchair,, it sexually > > > stimulates her,,  she is easy to beat too,, with a bat!! or club. > > >  please doe/tom/shithead,, give tzippy an eamil and then you both can > find > > > each other ,, fall in love,,, share long winter nights together,, > > > what do you think tom,, she told me she really likes you,, and would > like > > to > > > start a porno site with you ,, live webcam feed,, on the barn amimal > show, > > > starring monty the moose!!!!! > > >  i bet the  kind folks here would agree that you need a relationship to > > take > > > up your spare time you seem to have alot of,, and we would chip in for > > your > > > peanutbuttermoon, send you both on a oneway trip to the luxurious > tropical > > > land called HELL,, for eternal damnation together,, 2 sick freakin > devils > > > !!! how roman-tic ,, or is it greek??? with animals?? > > > anywho let us matchmakers know doe, tom ,shithead,, whatever you like > > being > > > called, > > >  you would be    mr.& mrs.tom shithead > > >                          666 cripsy st. south > > >                           mt.damnation new hell > > >                             90210 > > >  both of you will wear black to your wedding, to signify evil inside of > > both > > > of you/all of you’s > > > i am so excited,, doe and tzippy ,, you can spend all day pushing her > > > over,and answerng the door when the poilice show up ,,everyday,,over and > > > over > > > let us know how the romance goes you to love freaks!!! > > > bobD  ??

Response:

"Laura" <the_happy_w…@myrealbox.bom> wrote in message

news:H%Bob.734$gD1.635@fe2.columbus.rr.com… > I’ll just stick to <kiss kiss> with my silly old doey pookums.. I might have > to push zipper out of her chair though if she does try to hook up with him. > You seem to be good at that…maybe you help me… :-) > — > Laura

i got yer back!!!!!! bobD i’d push over anyone for a friend – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca> wrote in message > news:JrAob.237162$9l5.34012@pd7tw2no… > >  if you bribe him enough he will marry you,,so he can have someone love > him > > too. > > bobD > > "Laura" <the_happy_w…@myrealbox.bom> wrote in message > > news:Y3xob.700$gD1.269@fe2.columbus.rr.com… > > > <giggle> good one.. > > > — > > > Laura > > > "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca> wrote in message > > > news:Hroob.230924$pl3.225292@pd7tw3no… > > > > hey doe-rk,, tom pal,, i have a great idea , why dont you hook up with > > > > tzipster,, she is hot!!,, you could date,, then marry,, etc. > > > >  i think you both would get along just great,, you share similar > > interest > > > > and both have monsterchausen 2×4 proxy,,, and are trolls,, you could > > raise > > > a > > > > family of troll together,, mom and daddy freaks!!!!! > > > >  so think about it and email tzippy ,, she is a single white female,, > on > > > > mondays,, then  a martian on tuesdays,, ,, she like to play games with > > > > people,, and loves to be tipped over in her wheelchair,, it sexually > > > > stimulates her,,  she is easy to beat too,, with a bat!! or club. > > > >  please doe/tom/shithead,, give tzippy an eamil and then you both can > > find > > > > each other ,, fall in love,,, share long winter nights together,, > > > > what do you think tom,, she told me she really likes you,, and would > > like > > > to > > > > start a porno site with you ,, live webcam feed,, on the barn amimal > > show, > > > > starring monty the moose!!!!! > > > >  i bet the  kind folks here would agree that you need a relationship > to > > > take > > > > up your spare time you seem to have alot of,, and we would chip in for > > > your > > > > peanutbuttermoon, send you both on a oneway trip to the luxurious > > tropical > > > > land called HELL,, for eternal damnation together,, 2 sick freakin > > devils > > > > !!! how roman-tic ,, or is it greek??? with animals?? > > > > anywho let us matchmakers know doe, tom ,shithead,, whatever you like > > > being > > > > called, > > > >  you would be    mr.& mrs.tom shithead > > > >                          666 cripsy st. south > > > >                           mt.damnation new hell > > > >                             90210 > > > >  both of you will wear black to your wedding, to signify evil inside > of > > > both > > > > of you/all of you’s > > > > i am so excited,, doe and tzippy ,, you can spend all day pushing her > > > > over,and answerng the door when the poilice show up ,,everyday,,over > and > > > > over > > > > let us know how the romance goes you to love freaks!!! > > > > bobD  ??

Response:

"Sylvia" <Sylv772…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:e43f7f84.0310311426.1a6f77fd@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob; > > hey doe-rk,, tom pal,, i have a great idea , why dont you hook up with > > tzipster,, she is hot!!,, you could date,, then marry,, etc. > >  i think you both would get along just great,, you share similar interest > > and both have monsterchausen 2×4 proxy,,, and are trolls,, you could raise a > > family of troll together,, mom and daddy freaks!!!!! > Shudder to think of the offspring these two mutants would produce!  GACK! > I think this world has enough problems withou having to deal with this! > That’s too scary, even on Halloween! > Sylvia

 oohh nooo,, if they mate on halloween then the child will be the offspring of satan’s brother, joe evil, yes this is scarry they could make the most ultimate troll,, and the net will never be the same.  if anything tzipster has her letters and could publish all the work doe/tom has stolen. bobD

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject: Doe/tom, tzippy loves you >From: "Bob Davidson" phatb…@shaw.ca >Date: 10/31/2003 2:46 AM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <Hroob.230924$pl3.225292@pd7tw3no> >hey doe-rk,, tom pal,, i have a great idea , why dont you hook up with >tzipster,, she is hot!!,, you could date,, then marry,, etc. > i think you both would get along just great,, you share similar interest >and both have monsterchausen 2×4 proxy,,, and are trolls,, you could raise a >family of troll together,, mom and daddy freaks!!!!! > so think about it and email tzippy ,, she is a single white female,, on >mondays,, then  a martian on tuesdays,, ,, she like to play games with >people,, and loves to be tipped over in her wheelchair,, it sexually >stimulates her,,  she is easy to beat too,, with a bat!! or club. > please doe/tom/shithead,, give tzippy an eamil and then you both can find >each other ,, fall in love,,, share long winter nights together,, >what do you think tom,, she told me she really likes you,, and would like to >start a porno site with you ,, live webcam feed,, on the barn amimal show, >starring monty the moose!!!!! > i bet the  kind folks here would agree that you need a relationship to take >up your spare time you seem to have alot of,, and we would chip in for your >peanutbuttermoon, send you both on a oneway trip to the luxurious tropical >land called HELL,, for eternal damnation together,, 2 sick freakin devils >!!! how roman-tic ,, or is it greek??? with animals?? >anywho let us matchmakers know doe, tom ,shithead,, whatever you like being >called, > you would be    mr.& mrs.tom shithead >                         666 cripsy st. south >                          mt.damnation new hell >                            90210 > both of you will wear black to your wedding, to signify evil inside of both >of you/all of you’s >i am so excited,, doe and tzippy ,, you can spend all day pushing her >over,and answerng the door when the poilice show up ,,everyday,,over and >over >let us know how the romance goes you to love freaks!!! >bobD  ??

But Metzger will stalk Tzippy and attack Tom too.:)

Response:

On 03 Nov 2003 19:57:32 GMT, tzippysfanc…@cs.com (Tzippysfanclub) wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: >But Metzger will stalk Tzippy and attack Tom too.:)

What is the downside to this? — This message prepared using voice recognition technology.  There may be ‘air roars’.

Response:

In <news:96idqvcci8lcatjuq40v2o8ah2mg7064ed@4ax.com>, Jim Carter said: > On 03 Nov 2003 19:57:32 GMT, tzippysfanc…@cs.com (Tzippysfanclub) > wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: >> But Metzger will stalk Tzippy and attack Tom too.:) > What is the downside to this?

That Tom might enjoy it and take it as encouragement? ((U))   M

Response:

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:46:40 -0800, "Michael" <muirh…@island.net> wrote: >In <news:96idqvcci8lcatjuq40v2o8ah2mg7064ed@4ax.com>, >Jim Carter said: >> On 03 Nov 2003 19:57:32 GMT, tzippysfanc…@cs.com (Tzippysfanclub) >> wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: >>> But Metzger will stalk Tzippy and attack Tom too.:) >> What is the downside to this? >That Tom might enjoy it and take it as encouragement? >((U)) >  M

David is not unreasonable.  For a modest sum he cold eliminate, so to speak, our problems for us.  Besides, he owes us.

Response:

In <news:3cjdqvgo7n5qiggnjj7f89hfvi475voaus@4ax.com>, Chuck Mercer said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:46:40 -0800, "Michael" <muirh…@island.net> > wrote: >> In <news:96idqvcci8lcatjuq40v2o8ah2mg7064ed@4ax.com>, >> Jim Carter said: >>> On 03 Nov 2003 19:57:32 GMT, tzippysfanc…@cs.com (Tzippysfanclub) >>> wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: >>>> But Metzger will stalk Tzippy and attack Tom too.:) >>> What is the downside to this? >> That Tom might enjoy it and take it as encouragement? >> ((U)) >>  M > David is not unreasonable.  For a modest sum he cold eliminate, so to > speak, our problems for us.  Besides, he owes us.

Big.

Response:

"Michael" <muirh…@island.net> wrote in message

news:bo6ic502qkn@enews2.newsguy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In <news:96idqvcci8lcatjuq40v2o8ah2mg7064ed@4ax.com>, > Jim Carter said: > > On 03 Nov 2003 19:57:32 GMT, tzippysfanc…@cs.com (Tzippysfanclub) > > wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: > >> But Metzger will stalk Tzippy and attack Tom too.:) > > What is the downside to this? > That Tom might enjoy it and take it as encouragement? > ((U)) >   M

 or that tom and david fall in love,, and split leaving tzippy to breast feed all the babies at the orphanage,,,  such udder love!!!! bobD

Response:

In <news:O9Gpb.286831$9l5.168401@pd7tw2no>, Bob Davidson said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Michael" <muirh…@island.net> wrote in message > news:bo6ic502qkn@enews2.newsguy.com… >> In <news:96idqvcci8lcatjuq40v2o8ah2mg7064ed@4ax.com>, >> Jim Carter said: >>> On 03 Nov 2003 19:57:32 GMT, tzippysfanc…@cs.com (Tzippysfanclub) >>> wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: >>>> But Metzger will stalk Tzippy and attack Tom too.:) >>> What is the downside to this? >> That Tom might enjoy it and take it as encouragement? >> ((U)) >>   M >  or that tom and david fall in love,, and split leaving tzippy to > breast feed all the babies at the orphanage,,,  such udder love!!!! > bobD

Udderly preposterous… but I gather she’s properly equipped. ((U))   M

Response:

Their love child will make Freddie Kruger  look like a saint:)

Response:

"Mish" <mishugan…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:19f3acbb20234b734208b6f7f1caf6c2@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… > Their love child will make Freddie Kruger  look like a saint:)

you think so tzippy??

Response:

Bush to provide free universal health care for Iraq

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – washingtonpost.com Fixing Iraqi Health Care Comes at Expense of U.S. Needs, Critics Say By Ceci Connolly Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 17, 2003; Page A25 [..] The Bush administration and many humanitarian relief groups say the United States has a moral and legal obligation to rebuild Iraq. And the FOUR MILLION Americans who’ve lost their jobs since this clown took office?  Guess they’re just outta luck. Meanwhile, we’re giving (not lending, GIVING) $150 billion to a country with the world’s third largest proven oil reserves. Absolute insanity.

Not to mention that fact that there are hundreds of men and women in our military who were injured while being deployed in Iraq who are still waiting for medical treatment because of a lack of doctors and other medical care resources and those who’re in Iraq now fighting for the Bush/Cheney oil machine can’t even get free phone calls home, yet Bush wants those same people (tax payers) to foot the bill to rebuild the telephone system in Iraq at our expense. If the war in Iraq isn’t the world’s biggest pork project, I don’t know what is.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snippage The Bush administration and many humanitarian relief groups say the United States has a moral and legal obligation to rebuild Iraq. and more snippage So why didn’t they stay the hell out of there in the first place? Then maybe we could have afforded decent health care for our own (U.S) citizens. Oh, excuse me — forgot about the insurance companies’ bigtime payoffs to Congress to keep the present mess…

Don’t forget the insurance companies bigtime payoffs to TV stations to air their Harry and Louise commercials to keep the present mess…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – washingtonpost.com Fixing Iraqi Health Care Comes at Expense of U.S. Needs, Critics Say By Ceci Connolly Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 17, 2003; Page A25  [..] The Bush administration and many humanitarian relief groups say the United States has a moral and legal obligation to rebuild Iraq. And the FOUR MILLION Americans who’ve lost their jobs since this clown took office?  Guess they’re just outta luck. Meanwhile, we’re giving (not lending, GIVING) $150 billion to a country with the world’s third largest proven oil reserves. Absolute insanity. Rick Right. Maybe if Bush first bombs our towns and cities and pretends we are hiding weapons of mass destruction he will then have a "vision" for universal health care for the U.S. Bettina

There are 44 million Americans without health care and Bush is using our money to give everyone in Iraq health care.  I wish someone would slap that moron upside the head.

Response:

washingtonpost.com Meanwhile, we’re giving (not lending, GIVING) $150 billion to a country with the world’s third largest proven oil reserves. If the war in Iraq isn’t the world’s biggest pork project, I don’t know what is.

Indeed. The Iraqis I’ve traded EMAIL’s with are flabbergasted. They note that they largely rebuilt Iraq after Gulf War I while struggling under crippling sanctions, and can do it again if the Americans will let them, even better this time because they don’t have Saddam Insane and sanctions to deal with anymore — but Iraqis rebuilding Iraq would not give Vice President Haliburton his profits (whoops, "deferred salary"). Instead, American companies are being handed huge chunks of money to employ Filipinos (not Americans) to rebuild Iraq for a 1000% markup. One aghast engineer noted that Haliburton bid $10M to repair a bridge that her employer (an Iraqi civil engineering company) bid $500K to repair — and Haliburton got the contract! (Yes, there are lady We need to put Iraqis back in charge of Iraq, and spend our time chasing terrorists, not profits for Haliburton. Saddam’s head on a pike wouldn’t be a bad idea either — the Iraqi people would be the loudest voice cheering us on when that happens. (Even though they are dismayed at the American "rebuilding" of Iraq, most Iraqis hate Saddam even worse, blaming him for 20 years of misery starting with the Iraq-Iran war). —        http://www.badtux.org —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

If Americans don’t get free health care and free college soon, there may be a revolution. Many people are saying a revolution is already coming. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – washingtonpost.com Fixing Iraqi Health Care Comes at Expense of U.S. Needs, Critics Say By Ceci Connolly Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 17, 2003; Page A25 President Bush and first lady Laura Bush have a vision for health care in Iraq in which all mothers-to-be receive prenatal care, childhood mortality rates plummet and every person has access to virtually free treatment and medicine through an extensive network of 1,400 renovated hospitals and clinics. It is a vision that will cost U.S. taxpayers almost $2 billion in the first 18 months — an amount some lawmakers say is too steep, especially when a growing number of Americans cannot afford medical care. "I certainly understand the need for health care in Iraq," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.), who tried unsuccessfully Tuesday to shift $5 billion from Iraqi assistance to domestic education, health and construction projects. "This administration has a sense of urgency in Iraq that I don’t see here at home. We see hospitals closing and the number of uninsured going up, and yet we don’t see any sense of urgency from this administration." The effort to revitalize Iraq’s health care system is a source of pride for the Bush administration in a postwar reconstruction program that has often been hampered by violence, international squabbling and logistical problems. Laura Bush has taken a personal interest, lobbying for construction of a state-of-the-art children’s hospital in Basra that would one day draw patients and physicians from all over the Middle East. The Bush administration and many humanitarian relief groups say the United States has a moral and legal obligation to rebuild Iraq. "There is no doubt that the one responsible for this is, according to the Geneva Conventions, the occupying power, and that is the U.S.-led coalition," Morten Rostrup, international council president of the aid group Doctors Without Borders, said recently. Administration officials point to political and security imperatives that make investment in Iraqi schools, hospitals, roads and housing critical. "If we are successful at rebuilding health care in Iraq, we can start turning this terrible war against the terrorists," Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson said in an interview. "We can do that better, I think, by using a doctor and medical diplomacy than we can by other means." Winning the war on terrorism, Thompson suggested, requires doing things that "show the Muslim world we really do care about women and children." Medical intervention "is one way we can highlight our compassion." But as Congress conducts a fierce debate over the administration’s request for $87 billion to pay for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, the proposed medical program for Iraq illustrates the inherent tensions in spending American dollars in a far-off land. At home, the deficit is rising, unemployment hovers around 6 percent and many voters complain to pollsters that Bush is not focused enough on their economic plight. "The same values that we hold for Iraq we must pledge for all Americans," Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) said. "The same goals we envision for Iraq’s future, we must envision for America." Emanuel and a contingent of liberal House members, in weekly floor speeches dubbed "Iraq Watch," have contrasted unmet domestic needs with the ambitious plans for Iraq. The group cites a long list of what it calls neglected domestic programs, such as veterans’ health care, schools, police on the street, prescription drugs for seniors and an aging electric grid. "Restoring the Iraqi health system is a key part of the overall reconstruction effort," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (Mass.), the top Democrat on the Senate’s health committee. "But it is ironic that the same administration that wants to improve health care in Iraq is so indifferent to the exploding costs and declining coverage that are undermining health care here at home." William Winkenwerder, assistant secretary for health at the Pentagon, said better health care in Iraq will enhance stability in the entire region — and improving health appears to be one goal around which a diverse collection of nations and nonprofit groups can unite. "The health care piece is working, and it’s working pretty darn well," said Winkenwerder, who added that he believes the medical successes have not gotten the attention they deserve. "This is one area where the coalition has worked closely and effectively, and with a broad international group." In the past 12 years, Iraq’s health care system deteriorated from being the jewel of the Middle East to Third World-quality care. In 2002, Iraq spent $16 million on health care for 25 million people, Winkenwerder said, or about 65 cents per person. Infant mortality rates more than doubled, from 50 deaths per 1,000 born in 1990 to 107 per 1,000 in 2000. More than half the pregnant women in the country are anemic, and about one-third deliver low-birth-weight babies. Emergency intervention and repairs have restored much of the system to pre-war levels, Winkenwerder and Thompson said. Now they hope to make Iraq’s health system a regional leader once again. Of the $87 billion the administration is requesting, $850 million would be spent on health care in Iraq — about $300 million for buying generators and medical equipment, and the remainder for major infrastructure work, according to the Office of Management and Budget. Bechtel Corp. is the lead contractor on construction projects at hospitals and clinics; other organizations such as Abt Associates and UNICEF have received smaller contracts. That $850 million would be in addition to $211 million spent on health care from July through the end of this year and $946 million targeted for health in the U.S.-installed occupation authority’s budget for 2004, said James Haveman, the senior U.S. adviser to the Iraqi Ministry of Health. Another $100 million for administration and salaries at the hospitals and clinics has been drawn from seized assets of Saddam Hussein. Some international aid experts have voiced skepticism about the selection of Haveman, whose international experience is limited to work with International Aid, a Christian relief organization. Ron Waldman of Columbia University said the administration is focused too heavily on bricks and mortar, rather than on fundamental public health approaches such as teaching mothers to breast-feed, immunizing children and extolling the virtues of hand-washing. He and many others were sharply critical of the administration request for $150 million to start work on a new, high-tech hospital in Basra, a project about which sources said Laura Bush is particularly enthusiastic. "A facility designed to handle top-level pediatric care, plastic surgery, burn treatment — those aren’t things that contribute to infant or childhood mortality," he said. "That’s like building the penthouse before the foundation." U.S. leaders are under "tremendous pressure from the doctors and public" in Iraq to "make symbolic improvements," said Richard Garfield, a professor of clinical international nursing at Columbia University, who spent the summer in Iraq advising the U.S. government and international relief agencies. "Hospitals are a black hole; you can pour all the money you have into them and still not get the bang for your buck." Thompson defended the project, saying, "It’s something to leave as a legacy" and could eventually draw patients from all over the Middle East. House appropriators recently eliminated the Basra hospital and shifted an extra $100 million to repairs of existing hospitals. In a telephone interview from Baghdad, Haveman said 95 percent of the $1.1 billion he controls is spent on direct medical services such as nutrition counseling, vaccines, newborn screening, pharmaceuticals, equipment, insect spraying, disease surveillance and training doctors and nurses who have not heard about new Western techniques in more than a decade. Haveman nearly gushes over the level of U.S. support in Iraq. Yet he realizes the United States cannot maintain those levels indefinitely. Haveman and the Iraqis have done a needs assessment for health care. Next week, at a donors conference in Madrid, he will ask the rest of the world for $1.6 billion in aid through 2006.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – washingtonpost.com Fixing Iraqi Health Care Comes at Expense of U.S. Needs, Critics Say By Ceci Connolly Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 17, 2003; Page A25  [..] The Bush administration and many humanitarian relief groups say the United States has a moral and legal obligation to rebuild Iraq. And the FOUR MILLION Americans who’ve lost their jobs since this clown took office?  Guess they’re just outta luck. Meanwhile, we’re giving (not lending, GIVING) $150 billion to a country with the world’s third largest proven oil reserves. Absolute insanity. Rick

Right. Maybe if Bush first bombs our towns and cities and pretends we are hiding weapons of mass destruction he will then have a "vision" for universal health care for the U.S. Bettina

Response:

washingtonpost.com Fixing Iraqi Health Care Comes at Expense of U.S. Needs, Critics Say By Ceci Connolly Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 17, 2003; Page A25 President Bush and first lady Laura Bush have a vision for health care in Iraq in which all mothers-to-be receive prenatal care, childhood mortality rates plummet and every person has access to virtually free treatment and medicine through an extensive network of 1,400 renovated hospitals and clinics. It is a vision that will cost U.S. taxpayers almost $2 billion in the first 18 months — an amount some lawmakers say is too steep, especially when a growing number of Americans cannot afford medical care. "I certainly understand the need for health care in Iraq," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.), who tried unsuccessfully Tuesday to shift $5 billion from Iraqi assistance to domestic education, health and construction projects. "This administration has a sense of urgency in Iraq that I don’t see here at home. We see hospitals closing and the number of uninsured going up, and yet we don’t see any sense of urgency from this administration." The effort to revitalize Iraq’s health care system is a source of pride for the Bush administration in a postwar reconstruction program that has often been hampered by violence, international squabbling and logistical problems. Laura Bush has taken a personal interest, lobbying for construction of a state-of-the-art children’s hospital in Basra that would one day draw patients and physicians from all over the Middle East. The Bush administration and many humanitarian relief groups say the United States has a moral and legal obligation to rebuild Iraq. "There is no doubt that the one responsible for this is, according to the Geneva Conventions, the occupying power, and that is the U.S.-led coalition," Morten Rostrup, international council president of the aid group Doctors Without Borders, said recently. Administration officials point to political and security imperatives that make investment in Iraqi schools, hospitals, roads and housing critical. "If we are successful at rebuilding health care in Iraq, we can start turning this terrible war against the terrorists," Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson said in an interview. "We can do that better, I think, by using a doctor and medical diplomacy than we can by other means." Winning the war on terrorism, Thompson suggested, requires doing things that "show the Muslim world we really do care about women and children." Medical intervention "is one way we can highlight our compassion." But as Congress conducts a fierce debate over the administration’s request for $87 billion to pay for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, the proposed medical program for Iraq illustrates the inherent tensions in spending American dollars in a far-off land. At home, the deficit is rising, unemployment hovers around 6 percent and many voters complain to pollsters that Bush is not focused enough on their economic plight. "The same values that we hold for Iraq we must pledge for all Americans," Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) said. "The same goals we envision for Iraq’s future, we must envision for America." Emanuel and a contingent of liberal House members, in weekly floor speeches dubbed "Iraq Watch," have contrasted unmet domestic needs with the ambitious plans for Iraq. The group cites a long list of what it calls neglected domestic programs, such as veterans’ health care, schools, police on the street, prescription drugs for seniors and an aging electric grid. "Restoring the Iraqi health system is a key part of the overall reconstruction effort," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (Mass.), the top Democrat on the Senate’s health committee. "But it is ironic that the same administration that wants to improve health care in Iraq is so indifferent to the exploding costs and declining coverage that are undermining health care here at home." William Winkenwerder, assistant secretary for health at the Pentagon, said better health care in Iraq will enhance stability in the entire region — and improving health appears to be one goal around which a diverse collection of nations and nonprofit groups can unite. "The health care piece is working, and it’s working pretty darn well," said Winkenwerder, who added that he believes the medical successes have not gotten the attention they deserve. "This is one area where the coalition has worked closely and effectively, and with a broad international group." In the past 12 years, Iraq’s health care system deteriorated from being the jewel of the Middle East to Third World-quality care. In 2002, Iraq spent $16 million on health care for 25 million people, Winkenwerder said, or about 65 cents per person. Infant mortality rates more than doubled, from 50 deaths per 1,000 born in 1990 to 107 per 1,000 in 2000. More than half the pregnant women in the country are anemic, and about one-third deliver low-birth-weight babies. Emergency intervention and repairs have restored much of the system to pre-war levels, Winkenwerder and Thompson said. Now they hope to make Iraq’s health system a regional leader once again. Of the $87 billion the administration is requesting, $850 million would be spent on health care in Iraq — about $300 million for buying generators and medical equipment, and the remainder for major infrastructure work, according to the Office of Management and Budget. Bechtel Corp. is the lead contractor on construction projects at hospitals and clinics; other organizations such as Abt Associates and UNICEF have received smaller contracts. That $850 million would be in addition to $211 million spent on health care from July through the end of this year and $946 million targeted for health in the U.S.-installed occupation authority’s budget for 2004, said James Haveman, the senior U.S. adviser to the Iraqi Ministry of Health. Another $100 million for administration and salaries at the hospitals and clinics has been drawn from seized assets of Saddam Hussein. Some international aid experts have voiced skepticism about the selection of Haveman, whose international experience is limited to work with International Aid, a Christian relief organization. Ron Waldman of Columbia University said the administration is focused too heavily on bricks and mortar, rather than on fundamental public health approaches such as teaching mothers to breast-feed, immunizing children and extolling the virtues of hand-washing. He and many others were sharply critical of the administration request for $150 million to start work on a new, high-tech hospital in Basra, a project about which sources said Laura Bush is particularly enthusiastic. "A facility designed to handle top-level pediatric care, plastic surgery, burn treatment — those aren’t things that contribute to infant or childhood mortality," he said. "That’s like building the penthouse before the foundation." U.S. leaders are under "tremendous pressure from the doctors and public" in Iraq to "make symbolic improvements," said Richard Garfield, a professor of clinical international nursing at Columbia University, who spent the summer in Iraq advising the U.S. government and international relief agencies. "Hospitals are a black hole; you can pour all the money you have into them and still not get the bang for your buck." Thompson defended the project, saying, "It’s something to leave as a legacy" and could eventually draw patients from all over the Middle East. House appropriators recently eliminated the Basra hospital and shifted an extra $100 million to repairs of existing hospitals. In a telephone interview from Baghdad, Haveman said 95 percent of the $1.1 billion he controls is spent on direct medical services such as nutrition counseling, vaccines, newborn screening, pharmaceuticals, equipment, insect spraying, disease surveillance and training doctors and nurses who have not heard about new Western techniques in more than a decade. Haveman nearly gushes over the level of U.S. support in Iraq. Yet he realizes the United States cannot maintain those levels indefinitely. Haveman and the Iraqis have done a needs assessment for health care. Next week, at a donors conference in Madrid, he will ask the rest of the world for $1.6 billion in aid through 2006.

Response:

snippage The Bush administration and many humanitarian relief groups say the United States has a moral and legal obligation to rebuild Iraq.

and more snippage So why didn’t they stay the hell out of there in the first place? Then maybe we could have afforded decent health care for our own (U.S) citizens. Oh, excuse me — forgot about the insurance companies’ bigtime payoffs to Congress to keep the present mess… — Outraged

Response:

washingtonpost.com Fixing Iraqi Health Care Comes at Expense of U.S. Needs, Critics Say By Ceci Connolly Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 17, 2003; Page A25 [..] The Bush administration and many humanitarian relief groups say the United States has a moral and legal obligation to rebuild Iraq.

And the FOUR MILLION Americans who’ve lost their jobs since this clown took office?  Guess they’re just outta luck. Meanwhile, we’re giving (not lending, GIVING) $150 billion to a country with the world’s third largest proven oil reserves. Absolute insanity. Rick

Response: